judecorp | Cost/benefit analysis

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Cost/benefit analysis

I am having a bit of a crisis of faith with respect to breastfeeding. I guess I am just not used to failure. I'm a goal-oriented person and when I want to do something, I do it. And if it's hard, I work hard and I get it done. I can't really think of anything I really wanted to do that I couldn't pull off. Except this.

It hit me the other day that I am taking 9-12 pills a day and getting half an ounce (or so) of milk per feeding. In a perfect situation (where the domperidone is timed just right and I don't nurse for 6-8 hours and it's first thing in the morning when milk peaks) I can squeeze out 2 ounces of milk, and let me tell you, it takes a lot of work. I have to pump for a long time, all the while squeezing the crap out of my boob with my hand in all kinds of funky ways to eke out every last drop. And then I actually get 2 ounces, which is a minor miracle.

Usually, though, pumping involves all of the above things, but half an ounce of output or less. That's disheartening. Like WOAH.

So here's the thing: generous friends have given me about six boxes of domperidone, and one is en route from

juliann as well. I have about four boxes left to my name. Do I buy more? Is it worth spending hundreds of dollars on bootleg medication to frustrate my little baby by continuing to put her on the boob that barely spits out milk? When she is really hungry, she gets PISSED OFF. I can't say I blame her. It's like being starving and having someone offer you one hors d'oeuvre. And making you work really really hard for it. It actually makes me sad when she's so frustrated. And then she guzzles 4oz. of formula and loves life.

It's so hard because I love nursing her and I love the time we spend, but is it worth dropping big bucks that we don't have on pills when we're already dropping big bucks on formula? (Although we haven't dropped bucks in a while, thanks to the generosity of folks sending us their free samples and Jen's parents buying us $100 worth of formula at BJs when they were here.) Do I spend $190 on 18 boxes of pills (a box lasts 11 days, so 198 days' worth) and try to stick it out? Do I use the pills I have and then see what happens when I run out? Do I continue to force the angry, hungry baby to suck out every last drop before I let her eat her real meal?

It's hard because I have a hard time separating what I'm doing that's best for her versus what I'm doing that is best for me. I wonder if I'm being selfish with all of this nursing business and whether I'm just beating a dead horse. 12 pills for a couple of half-ounce servings? I know every drop is helpful but sometimes I wonder if my money is better served buying someone else's breastmilk.

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I've seen lots of different moms make different decisions in this same situation. Honestly? I think you need to do whatever you will feel the most peace with. If the pills and pumping are causing enough stress to mess with your relationship with your daughter, than I would say it's not worth it. And this is coming from a BFing Nazi-of-sorts. However, if you would really feel a loss by giving up on the nursing, I would continue it.

Have you at all considered the supplementer again? I know it's a PITA, but I have a close friend in your same situation and she used one with formula with her son until he was about a year old. Yes, it was a huge PITA, but for her, she felt really wrong and disconnected with him giving him a bottle, so *for her*, using the supplementer was worth it and he is still nursing at almost 3 years old despite the fact that there is very very little milk. So if having a nursing relationship is important enough that you would feel super-depressed giving it up, I would maybe suggest trying the supplementer again.

FTR, I think that you have really been doing so much to breastfeed and honestly it breaks my heart that it has been so difficult and shitty for you. Truly. But as much as breastfeeding is so important and such an awesome thing, there is more to life you know? You are a great mom and I just feel with this parenting thing that I am the person I need to be able to live with at the end of the day. So do whatever you can feel good about and fuck anyone who might judge you. That's my opinion.

That is exactly what I was going to suggest, using the SNS or LactAid to give formula at the breast. It might stimulate you to produce more and you'd know that she's getting as much breastmilk as you have without having to stress over pumping. You have made so many sacrifices and worked so hard to breastfeed and this is totally not something that is your fault. You have to do what works for you and your family, whatever that may be.

My friend had true hypoplasia so it never did stimulate her to make more milk. Domperindone only made her drip milk every once in awhile. But using the SNS (most find the Lactaid easier but for some reason she found the SNS worked better for her) allowed her to nurse and that was the most important thing to her. And Jude, she said she'd be happy to talk with you if you ever wanted to chat.

Thanks. I'll let you know if I want to chat with her. :)

Unfortunately I have breast hypoplasia and I'm making pretty much the max I'm going to get because the gland tissue just isn't there to make more milk. Stimulation doesn't help - I used the SNS for two weeks solid with no change in the beginning. I actually don't do much pumping unless for whatever reason she sleeps too long.

*points* what she said. I don't have anything else to add. Just *hugs*

Thanks. :)

I still have the SNS in the kitchen but I just have such bad memories of it. On one hand I think it would be easier now because she's less squirmy and is much stronger and more capable of helping me latch her on (latching on was the problem we had with the SNS tubes)... but on the other hand, I know that by now she is used to the quicker release of the bottle and the SNS is soooo sloooooow. Maybe I will give it a try one time and see what happens.

I think I have decided not to buy any more pills, but to try to nurse as long as she will continue to nurse for comfort once the milk disappears. She's only going to start wanting to eat even more at feedings and nursing for food is going to become even more frustrating for her... but if she wants to keep being comforted at the boob that is okay with me.

I think I have enough pills to make it to about 3 1/2 months. That's pretty good, considering.

That's the same decision I faced with Devin & Maia both. Ryan kept pushing me to do it longer but to me, it just was not worth it. It was exhausting, stressful and frustrating for me to continue. To keep pumping out a half ounce if I was lucky on one side and a few drops on the other just didn't seem worth it to me and actually made me more upset than just not doing it at all. I continued with Devin until around 4-5 months but with Maia I stopped almost right away. It's a hard choice. I know you will do what is best. For me, I felt so much better once I stopped because the entire breast feeding situation was really stressful.

Yeah, I know how much you struggled with everything and I'm so sorry that it was such a problem. It's so weird how some people just don't make milk. I mean, there are reasons or whatever but it is just so baffling - why does it have to happen to some people?

Forgot, got your birth announcement and love it! She is so beautiful and the announcement is adorable!

--- as to the above comments with the SNS, man if you decide to do that kudos to you, I can't tell you how much I hate that thing! After trying it once or twice I about threw it out the window.

Thanks! She looks so different now even. :) (p.s. We need more pics of Maia and Devin.)

Dude, I hate the SNS too.

If your body is physically incapable of producing more than a tiny amount of milk, that's not something you can overcome by setting a goal, and it doesn't make you a failure if you can't.

Yeah, I know that rationally. Of course, we're not always so rational, you know? :)

this is a tough call, and I'm so sorry that it's so stressful. It sounds like the money thing is really stressful, and that it's putting a bit of a strain on your relationship as well...that and the physical pain would be enough to make me toss in the towel. And here's the thing that's important--this doesn't make you a failure. It means that your body is sending you messages about what feels good and right. The important thing is that your baby loves you and that she's eating. I know that you'd prefer it if she was nursing, but in the end, the ultimate critical thing is that she's healthy and happy, that you are, too, and that there's a minimal amount of stress involved in this for both of you.

Does Jen have thoughts one way or the other?

Money is always stressful, which SUCKS. I'm glad to be able to stay home for a while but it really puts us in a pinch financially which definitely makes any unexpected expense stressful. Yuck. I wish we had a money tree. (I would send you clippings!!)

The baby definitely loves me. And eating. She LOVES eating. ;)

As for Jen, it's tough. I mean, her attitude basically is that she will do and support whatever I want. Which is nice, but doesn't really help in the decision-making.

will she comfort nurse at all? i wonder if you could just ditch the dom and offer her the breast for comfort. she'll likely get a teeny bit, and you'll still have that relationship. no clue how long it might last or even if she'd do it (tate has never been a comfort nurser), but that's my best idea.

and yeah, purchasing BM seems like a good option, and much less stressful.l

Sometimes she will comfort nurse. It really depends on why she's upset. If she's really upset and all back-archy and stuff, then no... but sometimes she will when she's kind of sleepy and/or gassy. It's nice, because otherwise she just wants to nurse for like 30 seconds until she gets all of the milk out and then she's done.

Jen has a coworker who has offered us some free milk. I hope Jen talks to her about that. I'd love to replace a couple of bottles of formula with BM.

Like you, I can usually set a goal and accomplish it. That is, except when it comes to my body. My body has failed me many times. Sometimes, it doesn't matter what goal I set or how well I train. I can run 15 miles a week for months, do intervals and strength training, be in tip-top shape... still, one mild respiratory infection, or one very cold morning, or just overexerting myself a little too much can be enough to set off my asthma. And then, it doesn't matter how well-conditioned I am. I have to stop.

My point, I guess, is that when our bodies limit us, there's only so much we can do. And sometimes even what we *can* do is torturous.

I am sorry that BFing continues to be so frustrating and is so expensive. I hope you can make a decision about it that seems right for you and your family. Hugs.

Damn those bodies for not cooperating with our plans! I just hate that all of this is wrapped up in fertility, you know? It's like, "Okay, can't I have ONE reproductive function work please?" At least when she is a little older and not drinking breastmilk or formula I can just feel like a normal mama. :)

Dude, I wish I could run 15 miles a week. I am so lazy and fat these days. I need to work on that.

Well, not being a woman or a medical professional I can only give you my opinion as a man for whatever that is worth. I think this is a very emotional issue that you will regret not pursuing. While I can appreciate the "Can't really afford it" aspect, who really CAN afford kids? Plus, given the personal "Success/failure" side of things, I think its worth your trying to make this relationship with your child as complete as possible.

Just my uneducated .02c :)

Wait... you're not a woman??!??!?!

Seriously, though, of course we can't afford kids... but that's just the regular kid stuff, not a bunch of extra expenses for bootleg medication from New Zealand!

I can remember feeling the exact same way you did regarding my decision to continue or to stop b/f. Ultimately, I felt like I was spending more time pumping breast milk that wasn't enough to nourish my child then spending time with my child. I gave it a good six weeks and I'm proud of that.

I still have regrets ... of course but I couldn't control my the inability of my body to produce milk. Period. It's not like you're stopping because you're just tired of it or don't want to do it anymore. In some ways the struggle with b/f reminds me of the struggle I went through to conceive. I would have given anything to get pregnant the "natural" way but unfortunately it didn't happen that way for us. I would have given anything to have a wonderful birthing experience, and that didn't happen the way I wanted either. The same with b/f. The most important thing is that you and August are happy and healthy. If b/f is hurting and not helping then it is certainly time to evaluate things like you are.

You and Jen are wonderful mommies and August is a lucky little girl. You have my support and love no matter what you decide.

Well, I ditched the pumping a long time ago so we could spend more time together, and I'm glad for that. Also, pumping was just a constant reminder of how much milk I wasn't making. I only pump when she's missed a couple of feedings and I know I can get a decent amount.

It's just so frustrating that we have to deal with infertility stuff, and then we finally get our babies and we have to deal with this, too. Can't something go right? I mean, with infertility, and pregnancy losses, and BF issues... we need a break.

You are awesome.

I wish you weren't tying yourself in knots about this stuff, but I can't take my own advice! All I can tell you is I am thinking of you and hoping you find a decision that you, and Gus, can live with!

Heh, we're too neurotic to take advice. I'm sure you can relate. :)

Well, you know my story. I was pumping 6 times a day to give my twins about 2 bottles of breastmilk each. I was beyond exhausted from waking through the night not just to feed them but to pump. My nipples were so sore that I could barely hold my babies to my chest. I found myself pumping while the babies were wailing -- and I found myself bawling as they screamed.

I'm going back to work in a week, and I just couldn't imagine spending my time pumping at home when I should be spending that time with my children.

Yes, I could nurse them. But one baby alone takes AN HOUR to nurse. Figure that at 8-10 feedings a day and you've got 8 to 10 HOURS just nursing one baby. And even after nursing he was hungry - so then I had to feed him a bottle. I haven't even accounted for Veronica yet!

I don't think NOT breastfeeding makes anyone a bad mother. And you're not making milk -- that is something beyond your control.

I think a happy, rested and sane mother is a good mother.

Do I feel guilty? Yes, I do. Welcome to motherhood.

(hugs)

I know, the guilt. Ugh. I thought the point of having kids is so that I could give THEM guilt! ;)

I can't even imagine how I would feel if I had twins. I think I would have stopped, because I don't know how I would have split up half an ounce between two babies. You fought the good fight, but I am still envious of how much milk you got! xoxo

Mama, you know I've been there. I have a Lact-Aid if you want it. It came with 2 sets of stuff, and I only used one and used it only twice. In the end it didn't work for me b/c Jack wouldn't tolerate the tube in his mouth. If yours will stay latched on, it might be nice for you two, even if you used it only a couple of times a day.

For the record, I haven't nursed Jack in.... I don't know, a month or more? And today he nursed. it was after he ate and then wasn't able to sleep (we were at a friend's house) so I went to get him and he was sleepy and I just put a boob in his mouth for the hell of it. it was nuts and I was so surprised that he'd still do it.

So maybe you have a future in comfort nursing, even if you ditch the meds. I do have some to send you though let me know if you want them. I had planned to just stop pumping but keep taking the dom for a while but I quit the dom when I quit pumping pretty much.

FTR I have a lot more fun with Jack now that I've stopped pumping. And I have two extremely healthy and intelligent daughters who were raised primarily on formula, so I don't feel guilt about the formula.

Wow, that's cool that Jack nursed. I think it's so fascinating how ingrained the whole process is. How are you doing now that you're not nursing? I'm worried that I will be a big Guilt Factory. Like I don't have enough of that already, you know?

Your daughters are awesome, btw. So are you.

I guess you might as well finish up the drugs that you have. If you decide to stop, set yourself up with a tapering schedule so as to not completely shock the monkey, I mean system. I wonder if they actually are helping?? You might be capable of making the milk that you are on your own. You could continue offering boob or go whole hog with the bottles and just pump once or twice a day and dump whatever you get in with a bottle of formula to get The Good Stuff in her.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to use up what I've got, but I think I've decided not to buy anymore. When I run out, I run out. I think what I have will last through three months, which is more than I thought I would get out of it anyway. Everyone has been so sweet and generous. I think the dom is helping, which is sad. Before the dom, I could get maybe 1/4 ounce out of the good boob if I hadn't nursed in a long time. Now I can get 2 oz if it's been 6-8 hours, which is a huge difference.

Not having been through this myself and obviously unable to truly understand what you are going through... I'd have to say give up the pills. If they were making a HUGE difference, like helping you make more milk, obviously stay with it... but it seems like it's causing much anxiety for you and baby. And then you factor in the money... which as we all know isn' always as plentiful as we'd like.

In regards to formula, do you mind if I ask what kind you are using? I might be able to get you some at a discounted rate. Let me know if I can help, I'd be happy to ship you some!

PS... if I end up lucky enough to be a mom, I probably won't be able to breastfeed either (damn PCOS).

we are using enfamil lipil with iron - in powder form.

Well, the pills do help me make more milk... it's just still a reall small amount even though it's quantitatively more. I guess more than nothing is... something, right? :) But the pills are spendy, and we're down to one income right now. Yucko.

We use Enfamil Lipil formula (but Jen already told you that). How do you get it discounted? I am curious about this.

A majority of women with PCOS can have a normal milk supply, so I've been told. Although everyone I know with PCOS has had problems, so who knows?

You know I've been having patchy supply issues and doing the pumping thing too (we're nipple buddies!) But not sure whether I've ever let you know that when I pump I get barely anything at all, but when he feeds he's getting more than enough (when I'm not low-supply that is). I pump for the high demand thing for my body and it works to increase supply, but even now that he is having massively huge wees so obviously is getting lots of milk the most I usually get with mega boob massaging etc is 2 ounces and that is first thing in the morning etc etc etc. Sometimes you just don't let-down for the pump but you do for the baby. My next step is either to hire a hospital pump or buy an expensive one to see if that helps. I'm stubborn as fuck too girl!! I'm thinking of you every day as I grind away at it also.

xxx Mermaidgrrrl

Yeah, I read about your supply woes and how Seth wasn't gaining, and I just felt so bad for you because I could tell how guilty you feel. But you have nothing to feel guilty about, because you are feeding him! You are doing an awesome job and I am really rooting for you that you pick the supply back up and get the docs off your back.

xoxoxoxoxo

We do have an expensive electric double pump, so I know I'm getting the most out of pumping that I can get. It's not a hospital pump but it's the next best thing (Medela Pump In Style). I should send it to you when I stop.

It's ok to stop. It really is. It's not a failure on your part, it's not a sign of being a bad mother. It's ok to just comfort nurse and give your child donated or bought breastmilk and/or formula. The most important thing is spending quality time with your baby and if the pumping and the stress and the frustration are getting in the way of that then it's ok to put that all aside and just bottle feed and comfort nurse.

Trista

Thank you, Trista. I saved your previous e-mail and I read it every once in a while when I get down. You are the bomb.

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Okay, so I am still cracking up about the dream with the mechanic's uniform! Dude, that is some funny shit, yo. You are the awesomest awesome. :)

I am done being pregnant. No more of those dreams, okay, or I'm going to start dreaming that YOU are pregnant!!!! :)

I didn't read the comments, I'm sure you got excellent advice, but wanted to add my $0.02:

What about still breastfeeding, stopping the pills, letting Gus comfort nurse, and wait and see, while investigating donor milk if you want?

I'm in town now, we should hang out - I'm often free during the day on M/F, let me know if you would like some adult company some time.

Yeah, that's pretty much the plan as soon as I run out of my free pills.

We should totally hang! Sounds good. :)

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