We Shall Overcome (?)

[judecorp]

rizzo41 and I are headed into the City with a bag full of toiletries and toothbrushes. It's not much, but it's something.

It will be the first time I've walked through Manhattan since.

It will also be the last time before I go back to icky Ohio.

W. is telling the military to "get ready." I don't like this. Doesn't anyone THINK about what this will do? Do we have to make this into a "holy war"? Does he not see that he's playing directly into The Script?

Comments

[scottopic.livejournal.com]

What would you prefer the reaction to be?

I read plenty about how we should understand the origins of the anger, their culture, our foreign policy and so on...what would you have the United States do? Contemplate this and disregard this action? What, really?

[kungfoogirl.livejournal.com]

Any thing that doesn't involve more killing.

[yarnaddict.livejournal.com]

How can we keep madmen like Bin Laden from doing this again if we do not make them no longer a threat? Putting them in jail gives their followers even more reason to hijack planes - demanding their leader's freedom. Slapping him on the wrist and saying 'bad boy!' makes him laugh, and leaves him knowing that he can kill indiscriminately any time he likes, with no consequences for his actions.

I believe this can be done without a war, without the bombing of cities and the killing of innocents, which would make our leaders no better than Bin Laden. I pray that this is the case. But if we do nothing, if we do not remove this threat, then a tragedy like NYC/DC/Penn will happen again. Perhaps not in the states, perhaps it'll be another "free" country next time, and we will be mourning thousands more dead. We, the sane world, have the ability to take down terrorism without the killing of innocents. I hope and pray that our leaders utilize that ability. But something, something must be done to eliminate this threat.

In conjecture and fantasy

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Since I really don't have a say in what happens, I feel that I can be as fanciful as I would like to be. So here goes.

What would I do? That's a good question, and one that I've spent a lot of time thinking about. It's easy to be idealistic and self-righteous and such when these things aren't challenged. It's when the harsh realities of life are thrust into your face that conviction becomes more difficult.

I am a pacifist. Some would call me, in past days or present, a "flower child," a "pinko," a "hippie," or simply naive. Fine. But I am a pacifist, and because of this, I am opposed to all acts of aggression and violence. All of them.

I am as opposed to retaliation as I am to the destruction of something I loved, and to the incomprehensible loss of life. The number flashing on the screen most recently was something like 4,763. Isn't this high enough? Do we need to obliterate Afghanistan? Will that bring these people back? Will that console their families, their children?

Somewhere in America, a parent is grieving a lost child in the rubble. Do we send the second child to war? The parent? The whole family?

Somewhere in America, a person is being beaten because s/he is perceived to be a "terrorist" because s/he has darker skin, or "Middle Eastern" clothing.

I spent the morning walking past the walls of rememberance in front of the armory on 26th and Lex. I went to Union Square to see the flowers, the candles, the words, the people. I walked past the Salvation Army headquarters to see that they were completely overrun with donations. Every post, every mailbox, every street corner was full of "Missing:" signs. A boy gave me flowers and tears. The flowers I stuck on "Missing:" signs. The tears I kept for him.

And I am still a pacifist. I would like to see the terrorist activity stopped. I wish it were possible to change the minds of the people who think it's "God"'s will to wage war between Islam and the US. Maybe it is. But if you obliterate the people, the minds aren't changed. They become martyrs. They become heroes. They become "right."

Has there been enough death? Enough suffering? Will killing innocent Afghans ease your pain? Will blowing up more buildings raise the WTC?

What do I suggest? Simple: love. I told you I was a hippie.

Re: In conjecture and fantasy

[scottopic.livejournal.com]

Number one: the most annoying statement ever made was "do you think it will bring the dead back?"

OF COURSE NOT.
That has never been the point.

The point is, taking the route of turn the other cheek is an open invitation for terrorists and rogue nations to look to America for media attention and to inflict their hate and murderous intent - because we won't do a goddamned thing.

Loving the Taliban will not do anything.

Except invite them to do more. They prey on weakness and will see it as another chance to affirm their own beliefs that Allah has rewarded them for killing thousands of innocents.

Re:

[scottopic.livejournal.com]

Good luck with that.

Re: In conjecture and fantasy

[yarnaddict.livejournal.com]

No, killing innocents will not accomplish a single thing. I believe that doing nothing, though, and leaving the perpetrator(s) of this act unpunished, will lead to more deaths. Because they'll do it again. And again, and again, until they've killed everyone who won't bow to them, or we've fought them down.

If we do nothing, they have learned that there are no consequences for their actions, no repurcussions for the brutal murder of nearly 5000 people. If we go bombing Afghanistan until they hand over Bin Laden, we are no better than they are. But we must do something, or this will happen again. We can't negotiate with the terrorists and spread love to make this all better. Gods, I wish we could, and I'm not in any way making fun of you in saying that, not one bit. But they hate, they hate enough to kill thousands. Sometimes, love is not strong enough to heal everything by itself. =(

We, the peace-loving nations of the world (and we are, the people are, even if the governments are not always), we must be able to cut out a cancer without destroying the entire limb. We must be able to take out whoever did this without massacring innocents like the dogs that did this. There must be a way. There's idealism for you.

Re: In conjecture and fantasy

[kungfoogirl.livejournal.com]

It is SO good to see that there is at least one other sane mind out there.

Thank you.

Re: In conjecture and fantasy

[kungfoogirl.livejournal.com]

Bringing back the dead is exactly the point.

It's the ONLY point.

This is about human life.

Not about some asshole's quest for revenge.

And these people aren't "preying on weakness". They are seeking revenge for things that we did to them! So seeking revenge for their revenge is just fucking stupid. It's how we got here in the first place.

And you know what? I'd entertain talks about military action if they had ever produced the desired results. Even once.

But it just causes more attacks like the one last week. Let's not give them MORE reasons to attack us.

Re: In conjecture and fantasy

[scottopic.livejournal.com]

Ok - you put out the doormat. Have fun!

[cfred.livejournal.com]

Doesn't anyone THINK about what this will do? Do we have to make this into a "holy war"? Does he not see that he's playing directly into The Script?

Spot on, Jude.

I think the fact that we have gone five days without a military strike might already be playing outside their script, however.

They want John Wayne (sorry, Duke! Yours is the best image here) to come in with guns blazing, so they can galvanize support against the U.S. and make this an all out "holy war."

They want us to use Pakistan as a staging area. That's a win-win for them: either it pushes rebels within the country to overthrow the Pakistani government, or it forces us to prop up the Pakistani government and irritate India.

Yes, the military needs to get ready. If nothing else, we do need to bolster our home defense. We probably will need some sort of armed incursion to extract the terrorist leadership. (Considering who it probably is, we almost need, to an extent, to correct our own previous error--or, guess which three-letter agency threw a lot of money somebody's way 20 years ago?)

We don't need another Korea or Vietnam.

Re: In conjecture and fantasy

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Sometimes, love is not strong enough to heal everything by itself. =(

I disagree. I think it is the only thing strong enough to heal everything.

Re: In conjecture and fantasy

[yarnaddict.livejournal.com]

I don't see how just loving these madmen who hate enough to do what they did is going to keep them from doing it again. Turning the other cheek is going to get us nothing but a bruised other cheek.

Re: In conjecture and fantasy

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Those words are easy to say, but hard to justify. So are these: "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves us eyeless and toothless."

There's really no way of knowing either way. But I think I'm not making myself clear (I got 1.5 hours sleep.) I'm not saying that we should blow kisses to Osama bin Laden. I'm simply saying that if we all loved each other to begin with, people wouldn't feel alienated. And if people didn't feel alienated, they wouldn't have to go to extreme measures to get their voices heard.

The people who flew those planes into the buildings were trying to speak to us. It's just a shame that their message wasn't one of love. They probably never received one from us.

Proactive love. Reactive love is good, I suppose, but proactive is always more effective than reactive.

Re: In conjecture and fantasy

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Mwah. As Jodie wrote on a banner in Union Square Park:

All you need is love.

Re: In conjecture and fantasy

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Loving the Taliban will not do anything.

No, probably not. But I was thinking more proactive than reactive loving. If that makes sense.

What I mean is, if people didn't feel alienated in this world, if they didn't feel as if doing these sorts of things was the only way they would have a 'voice,' then we might not have these problems.

But I'm probably just being annoying again, for using words like 'proactive.'