More sleep woes

[judecorp]

I am going to do some bitching and complaining. If you don't want to read some bitching and complaining, you can skip it because I will be nice enough to cut it.

I am sofa king tired it is not even funny. I am used to functioning on small amounts of sleep and am not a long or thorough sleeper by any stretch of the imagination, but an average of 4 hours per night for the past two weeks is unacceptable and bordering on torture. Especially when those 4 hours (sometimes 3, sometimes 5) are not in one nice, tidy chunk but instead are in a couple of bursts, intermittent with baby wake-ups and Jen's snoring and cats that want to step all over me.

I knew going in that having a baby would mean loss of sleep, and I am okay with that. It is a short period of time in the big picture and I will get through it like everyone else does. I guess I just didn't plan on the All Night Party stage coming at the same time as the Only Mama Will Do For Sleeping stage. Punk went from sleeping from 7-6:30 with one wake-up to eat and a quick resettle by either parent to waking frequently throughout the night, needing copious amounts of settling (sometimes as long as 3 hours), and only allowing me to do this. All at once. In like one day. And I am Losing. My. Mind.

Let's take last night: we do the bedtime thing and Punk ends up finally in the crib asleep at 7:30pm. That's a little longer than usual but not terrible. She wakes up at 9 and is back down after a very quick resettle, maybe 15 minutes. I decide that I should try to get to bed early so after this, I wash the bottles and the dishes, clean the stove and the counters, make formula for the next day, and fill up the cats' water. I go to my computer to start shutting it down. It is 9:50 and I am hoping to be in bed by 10:05. Except Punk wakes up at 10. I go in to resettle and she is not having any of it. She falls asleep instantly in my arms in the rocking chair and the second I put her in the crib, she pops awake and starts thwapping her arm around. (Arm. Singular. The other is in the swaddle.) I attempt this several times until about 11 when she actually closes her eyes in the crib. Jen has already gone to sleep in the time I have been in there, even though I was supposedly going to bed early.

Five minutes later, Punk is back up and Jen asks if I am going to get her. I tell her that I am not planning to attend the All Night Party and she is going to have to have it without me. Jen goes to try to resettle the baby and after a few minutes says she is going to get a bottle. She feeds the baby and then says the baby won't go to sleep, but I wait it out and in a few minutes she is full-out howling. And Jen is upset, too. So I send Jen back to bed and I let the baby fall asleep in my arms, try to put her down... do all of that over again a couple of times and she goes back to thwapping the arm. Finally I swaddle both arms in, she falls asleep and I drop her in the crib and she stays asleep. It is 12:30am.

I then can't fall asleep because Jen is snoring, and the last time I see the clock it is 1:30am. The next time I see the clock it is 3:45am and the baby is awake and fussing. I wait a minute to see if it will escalate, and it does, so I haul myself back up and get her back into the rocking chair and get her back in the crib by 4:30am. I fall asleep probably around 5:15am and Jen's alarm goes off at 6:15am.

This has become a typical night. And it's really starting to become a problem. I have bad knees from too many years as a catcher on a baseball/softball team and they get achy when I don't get enough sleep. A couple of days ago I had to start taking Advil round-the-clock during the day because they were bothering me too much. I also have had an upset stomach for a week, also from not sleeping though I'm sure the Advil isn't helping. It is getting to the point where I am scared to drive because I've been arriving at places and don't really remember the actual act of getting there, which is hecka scary with my kid in the car.

Now before everyone says I should sleep when Punk sleeps during the day, it's not really an option because she isn't sleeping much during the day. She took a 23 minute nap at about 8:40am and now is napping again. She slept from 11am until 11:30am and then I had to go in there and put her back to sleep because she was awake. She might sleep until noon. That's 16 minutes from now so there's no way for me to be able to have the 40+ minutes I need to actually fall asleep... let alone time to take a wake-up shower. She naps longer in the afternoons but only because I go in there every 30-40 minutes to put her back to sleep.

And no, I am not going to let her cry it out. Not right now, hopefully not ever. She is a little person who needs help to go to sleep and that is my job as her mama. But that doesn't mean I have to be happy about the painful and exhausting situation I am in right now. I can just hope it's a quick phase.

Comments

[evewasframed.livejournal.com]

I don't have any suggestions, but I just wanted you to know that I read and I feel for you!

[yip95.livejournal.com]

I'm totally with you on this one. The past couple of nights have been the worse with Z and it's degrading. He wants to sleep, but isn't finding a comfy position in bed. but won't stay in his hammock. and won't really settle with Mama - must crawl over to Mommy and maul her!

We're at the point where, this morning, E said "let's just get the No Cry Sleep Solution book, read it, and do whatever it says, step by step." We know it won't tell us to make him CIO, and even if we don't think it will help with him, we don't particularly care at this point - we're too tired to fix it on our own.

I agree with you that she's a baby and this isn't going to last forever, and, in some ways, she does need parenting back to sleep. However, at this age, it's mostly about habit. She knows that you'll come in and snuggle her, so, of course, that's what she prefers. She also isn't aware that she can fall back to sleep any other way. We, as parents, have to break that cycle and teach the babies that they can just roll over and go back to sleep. It's just hard without, ya know, actual guaranteed forms of communication...like talking...(and it's harder without thinking, which is hard to do when I'm exhausted...thus this comment is quickly losing...um...understandability?)

[artemis44.livejournal.com]

I LOVED the No Cry Sleep Solution - and in fact, I find the yahoo group of the same title to be very helpful (well, more when he was younger and this was more of an issue, but I still read it when needed)

She has a great approach that allows for incremental change, rather than expecting you and your LO to do a complete changover in a day or a week. It's slow going, but that's more gentle on everyone really...

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy the book! :)

[thespian.livejournal.com]

(not a parent disclaimer)

I now it's hard, but I've talked to other parents going through that stage, and you do seem to need to let her cry it out. You can go to her, you can comfort her, make sure she knows she's not alone in this very big scary world (and both of you should be doing this), but everything I've heard is that you do need to teach her what sleep time is supposed to be.

(quick google check on 'baby won't sleep', provides this as the first link:)

http://www.drgreene.com/21_655.html

first match, same advice. I'm not, btw, trying to be awful. But part of your job as her mama is also teaching her to sleep through the night so you can be a better mama to her during the day.

(One of my earliest memories: when I was 2, and moved to a 'real' bed, I occasionally used to climb out of it, lie on the floor, and thump my leg. One of my parents used to come up and pick me up and coo a little and put me back to bed. It's a wonderful thing to have mommy or daddy come to you like that. One night I did this, and they didn't respond. So I figured they hadn't heard me, and did it again. Nothing. Once more, and I heard dad coming up the stairs. "We heard you," he laughed, "The first time." I know this isn't the same age group, but even now I can remember how great it was to be picked up and cuddled when you're really little. And it *is* your job to soothe her, help her relax, etc. But if she can get mama, every time, she's going to do what she can *get mama* every time.)

[folkyboy.livejournal.com]

i agree with this. she's going to escalate EVERYTIME until she knows what will work.

[oneirocritical.livejournal.com]

I can't even begin to imagine how hard this is, I know when I'm sleep deprvied, I actually get physical sick with stomach flu like symptoms and I'm just miserable. I just wanted you to know I was thinking about you and your family.

[vttwinmama.livejournal.com]

hugs for what you are going through right now. it sucks, no two ways about it. just wanted to say that we feel your pain, girlfriend! eventually, you guys will all find a sleep/night routine that works and allows everyone to get some sleep. while we occiasionally let jordan cry for 20 minutes or so (after nothing else such as rocking, soothing, shushing, patting, pacifier-ing has worked), it is something we also thought we were not interested in trying. some nights it works, some nights it does not. and some nights both kids are so congested with snot, that we let them sleep in their swings because it elevates their heads to help the snot drain. i hate that we do both of these things, but you do what works when things are tough. and some nights both kids sleep in their cribs, straight through the night and i wake up and think, my god, a miracle occurred here last night! you guys will get there. something will click and then this will all be over. for your sake...and the sake of your knees, i hope it is sooner rather than later!! chris

[tea-soaked.livejournal.com]

It sounds rough, Jude, I feel for you; We've only had a few rough nights here and there and those nights have been hard - I can't imagine night after night. I agree with you in not letting her cio and that she is a little person who needs your help to go to sleep - in fact, when we have difficult nights that is what I remind myself.

[shanneeluee.livejournal.com]

I'm so sorry. We're struggling a little bit around here too, and what's hardest about the sleeping for me is that Dan just doesn't deal with it too. I get frustrated because since I'm the one not working, I automatically have to do 99.9% around the house. Sometimes it would be nice if he would just get up so I can sleep. Ugh...sorry for complaining.

All that to say, I feel you. I'm sorry. :-(

[girlonthewire.livejournal.com]

well, you need to stress to Dan that you're working too. Doing a very important job -- and that you need sleep to do it.

i hope he lets you sleep in on weekends.

[aminahfiddler.livejournal.com]

Hugs. no advice. i do have a friend that has a 2yo that has some sleeping issues it's zsof she does not believe in cio. So she may have some good ideas. However, if this was just a vent ignore my humble advice.

Good luck!

[starrchilde.livejournal.com]

I know you said she doesn't sleep much during the day, but have you tried not letting her sleep at all during the day for a couple of days? I had to do this with Jackson when he was around 6/7 months old because he would sleep off and on and then refuse to go to sleep at night other than in short bursts.

It sucked for the first few days, but once he got used to sleeping at night, the daytime stuff sort of figured itself out. IIRC, it took about a week of this before it wasn't an issue any longer. FWIW, I also couldn't let him CIO because not only was he in the same room as I was, but we were staying with my parents while on medical leave and I was enough of a basketcase without having to worry about Dad bitching about a screaming child keeping them up too (primarily because my sister was 8 and causing problems at school because she was too tired during the day).

Much luck and peace to you.

[changinglight.livejournal.com]

((hugs to you))

As much as it sucks, I think that you're doing all the right stuff. I'm thinking of you over here :)

[checkingmypulse.livejournal.com]

{{HUGS}} I HATE being sleep deprived. I often am, but not to your level. I want to tell you that I'm proud of you for NOT letting her CIO. That's amazing and will eventually be to your benefit. It's just a matter of getting there.

[artemis44.livejournal.com]

I agree with this... while I think there might be something that could help (and if I knew what it was I'd tell ya), I do think you're doing all the right things, and that you're an excellent mama... you are giving your baby so much love, and are taking such very good care of her, and showing her so much unconditional care and attention, and it's really lovely... I know it doesn't feel that way, necessarily, but it shows out here... :)

All that said, do you have anyone you'd trust to babysit her (crying and all) for an afternoon nap, even just once a week? If I were out there durign the week, I would SO take her! You just need a nap, mama! :)

Good luck!

[mayna.livejournal.com]

if she WAS sleeping well and NOW she's not, I suspect it's teething. Maylie did that. Once the teeth came in, she was angelic again, and sleeping well.

Greg on the other hand never slept well from birth.

Vivi's teething don't seem to affect her how it affected Maylie, I didn't evne realize she was teething. Greg was high needs and cried a lot so teething didn't make him worse.

The NCSS does help some... it didn't help Greg's night wakings but it made putting him to bed easier.

Sorry I don't have better advice, sleep issues really suck!

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

She sleeps well in spurts. For a while she slept really well, and then she hit a big developmental jump and her sleep was rocky, then she was sleeping REALLY well (like one wakeup in 12 hours just for a bottle well) for quite a while, and now this - and she does seem to be in another developmental jump. I think she's REALLY sensitive to that stuff.

She doesn't act in pain from teething or anything, but there does seem to be a bump under the surface of her gums (not visible, but it feels harder in one spot when she bites my finger) so there might be something brewing... of course there might not. ;) She's been super clingy and weird for the last couple of weeks too, and I think it's all related. (Crying when other people hold her, freaking out when other people are in the house, not wanting Jen to put her to bed, etc.)

[lynncc01.livejournal.com]

I totally feel your pain in the lack of sleep department. You are getting some pretty awesome advice it seems. I am currently having a hard time keeping my eyes open- I will have to come back and re-read this post when I have more energy! xoxo

[juju-bug.livejournal.com]

ugh! Hang in there dear! *big hugs to you* - I am sleep deprived as well... Rio's sleep has gotten insanely worse, and the longest stretch of sleep I"ve had in one night has not exceeded 2 hours in the last 5 days. I don't know how, but I'm still functioning... She just keeps waking up and unable to settle until I nurse her. *sigh*

[hetterrific.livejournal.com]

I feel for you.

I feel as though we take 2 steps forward and then one back. Everytime sleeping starts going well for us, she gets sick, or a tooth, or we have to go out of town. It sucks.

I can't wait to get a good night of sleep again.

[sassywoman.livejournal.com]

DITTO! I think she might be in the pre-teething stages too. Emma always sleeps like crap when she has teeth brewing and then they push through.

One thing you might want to consider is trying naps without the swaddle. It was hard to break Emma of it but when we did and she got used to falling asleep without it she was able to settle back down easier when she woke.

[anaccidentofhope.wordpress.com (from livejournal.com)]

are we on the same wavelength here? Oh my lordy, I hear you. That was my life. Wait, that's still my life. Crappy sleepers are hell. I'm not going to give advice on sleeping, because, well, you read my posts. What I am going to suggest about is the "sleepy mommy" thing. While it's hard to get rid of that preference entirely, there ARE things you can do to alleviate it. They depend on Jen, though. As I mentioned in my post, while I'm the sleepy mommy, we've been forcing Sassa to rock with Klove every other night. The fact that Sassa knows that if Klove shows up that means I'm unavailable really helps. But it takes a lot of perseverance by Klove to push through the initial rage on the part of Sassa to get to where Sassa accepts that she's stuck with Klove.

So, I'd start by telling Jen how tired you are (if you haven't alredy) and that you need her to start stepping up in the night. If she argues that she works out of the home, you can point out that Chicory is the sleepy mommy and I also work out of the home during the day. In order for her to be able to settle the punk in the night, she needs to take more of a hand in the bedtime ritual. And by that, I mean that you need to make yourself scarce so the punk HAS to deal with Jen. Super hard. If Jen's willing to do these things, then at least the two of you can share the night duties.

Of course, I'm a super light sleeper, so I even when Klove takes a turn, I'm still awake, but at least I'm laying down!

Also, if the punk will co-sleep for 1- 2 hours, how about napping with her during the day? I know, this might make things worse, but it might not. Sassa sleeps much better for her naps when she's napping with me in the bed, and I get a bigger chunk of sleep, besides. You might not want to do it every day, but maybe for days when the nights were really bad and you need the extra sleep, too?

Also, I've noticed that on the days when Sassa naps well, she actually sleeps better at night. The days when she naps like crap then she's up all night, too. It might be correlation instead of causation (she's sleeping bad for both naps AND night because of teething, or ear infections or whatever instead of the fact that being overtired just makes her that much harder to soothe and relax) but I'm not sure.

Finally, if Jen's snoring is bad enough to interfere with your sleep, has she been checked for sleep apnea? I only got checked for it because Klove was complaining that she couldn't sleep because of my snoring. I didn't have any of the other classic symptoms.

[estrange.livejournal.com]

I'm so sorry :( My kids both did things similar depending on what stage they were in so hopefully she's just in a stage too & it will pass.

[dustyskinandall.livejournal.com]

Have you considered co-sleeping for a little while?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

It hasn't worked well for us. Punk needs to be swaddled to fall asleep, and it is too hot to co-sleep and be swaddled (I tried once and she was so hot and sweaty). Sometimes I can pull her into bed and she will eventually fall asleep, but she doesn't sleep any better with me than she does in the crib (i.e. still wakes up all the time) - in fact, she usually sleeps worse and I don't sleep at all.

[(Anonymous)]

I know you don't wanna hear this, but, I would say that she IS old enough to CIO. It seems to me that the parents who allow their kids to CIO are the ones who end up with good sleepers, and the ones who don't allow them end up with the ones who have more sleep issues. She knows that if she does A and B, then C and D will happen. It may be time for her to learn to soothe herself. It looks like the game of soothe, swaddle, switch isn't working, and it's doing a number on you both. Try something else for a while.

It could be teeth. They take a while to come up. Do her gums have that skinny ridge or are they starting to look rounder?

I really didn't intend to offend you, so hopefully I didn't. (((hugs))) and you know I hope it gets better :)

[(Anonymous)]

duh - don't know why that didn't come up as me....

sarha aubry :)

(frozen)

[lelumama.livejournal.com]

CIO sucks. Don't do it unless you have to.

Jen needs to get her ass up and deal with the baby more. Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes, but I'm angry at her on your behalf. So what if she's upset? It's her job as a parent.

I love you Jude...I hope this phase passes quickly, because I know how shitty it is. The all Night Baby Disco is a complete pain in the ass.

(frozen)

[kieron.livejournal.com]

Uhm - excuse me....but I do get up and deal with the baby - to the point that she is then screaming her head off and Jude can't sleep anyway.

So please, if you would like to discuss this with me directly please feel free to do so: kieron at livejournal dot com.

[lelumama.livejournal.com]

oh yeah, there's this: http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp

I know Punk isn't a full-time co-sleeper, but neither is Caiti anymore. She goes in her crib for the first part of the night, and now that stitches are holding my guts together, she has to sleep in her crib all night. We're using this plan and it's working...I know Punk is younger, but you might find some of this helpful.

You can be gentle and successful and not use CIO.

(frozen)

[(Anonymous)]

Jen needs to step up in taking care of the baby, yes she does work-- but so do you, being a mom is a full time job. Jen should help with the house chores, cleaning the baby bottles and getting them ready for you. The baby only wants you at night because she spends the majority of her time with you soothing her, where as Jen tends to pass her off when things are not ideal. On the weekends YOU should be allowed to sleep in , Jen take care of the baby to let you get the well deserved rest you need.

(frozen)

[kieron.livejournal.com]

As I noted above - if you would like to vent about me please do so directly to met via email: kieron at livejournal dot com.

Because I am not going to get into an argument in Jude's journal defending myself and my life here.

(frozen)

[sarahaubry.livejournal.com]

Well, I agree with that. Jen really needs to get it together and step it up. Like....yesterday.

[meglett.livejournal.com]

1.) when we come visit next month why don't hope and me hang out with the girls for 2 hours while you nap? seriously. we can even leave the house--we'll have our carseat, and if you don't mind us stealing your car for a while, we can easily install it. (or we can move yours to our rental)
2.) you've gotten all kinds of conflicting info from other comments, so i don't want to give assvice, but i do want to say that this is the book that worked for us: http://www.amazon.com/Good-Night-Sleep-Tight-Helping/dp/1593153562/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200624659&sr=8-2

quinn was 8 months old when we started, and in retrospect, i would have started earlier. if you'd like to glance at it (it's nicely broken up into age-appropriate sections, so you can just read that section and the intro), we can bring it with us WHEN WE COME VISIT NEXT MONTH!!
3.) love and support to you. non-sleeping babies suck the life out of you. we know. :( [but the sleep training was simply amazing, and changed this]

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't mind flipping through that book. Even if we don't do it, it's always nice to have more info!

I can't wait til you guys are in town! I have never met Quinn! OMG!!