Too many comments to respond to

[judecorp]

Wow, there was a lot of Jen-bashing in the comments of my last post. That sucks. Really really sucks. Sure we have had some ups and downs in the roller coaster of parenting but umm, lots of people do and I don't really make it a point to say rude crap about your spouses. I understand that a lot of you are trying to be helpful but let's face it, you're being harsh to the person I love and that hurts my feelings. So eff that.

For the record, I'm pretty sure I mentioned it yesterday but it is worth saying again that Jen /does/ go to the baby when she wakes up but for the past week or so Punk has decided that only I will do. And Jen hangs in there and tries and tries until Punk is full-on hysterical. And come on, people, when you are holding your kid and she is bawling because she wants someone else, that SUCKS. So stuff it.

If anyone is going to do some Jen-bashing around here, it will be me because umm, she's MY wife and it's my life and we are going to do what we are going to do. The end.

~//~

Now last night was weird. First Punk woke up a gazillion times in the early night (unusual) and was crying every time (also unusual). I was soaking in the tub so Jen put her back down three times with no incident. Maybe two times. I don't remember. Punk woke up every two hours or so like clockwork for a good chunk of the night but went right back down with a little love, until 4ish when she was ready for the All Night Party. In retrospect, I think she was kind of hungry because her tummy was rumbling, but aah well. I tried to get her down, then Jen tried to get her down and she did her Only Mama Will Do crying, so I went back to her and finally took her to bed with me around 5:30.

She was wide awake in bed with me but she was quiet, looking toward the window in the dark, eyes wide. At least I was able to lay down and chill. Eventually she fell asleep and woke up at 7:15. She has been napping since 9am, but I did have to go in and put her back to sleep around 9:50.

She also shows signs of a tooth on the bottom (white bumps on her gum but nothing broken through) so that could be the culprit. I suppose only time will tell. We tried teething tablets last night but it didn't do anything.

~//~

Crying it out may produce kids who sleep through the night. I'm not denying that. But hell, beating your kids may produce kids who don't talk back, and I don't see a lot of people advocating that just because "it works." (Now in no way am I calling CIO child abuse, before you get your knickers all in a twist. I'm just saying that not everything that 'works' is awesome.) I also think there are two distinctly different types of babies out there: those that can cry a little and blow off some steam, and those that will not settle down and instead will hype themselves up even more. There is a reason we are still swaddling at 6.5 months, people - everything escalates and right now she is just not capable of calming herself down. No matter how tired. No matter how upset. So go ahead and CIO with your own kids, that's cool with me. But certainly don't suggest stuff for a baby you've never even met.

Comments

[wendywoowho.livejournal.com]

Poor teething Gus. And poor dealing-with-teething J&J.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

xoxo Poor sick W!

[whuffle.livejournal.com]

I can understand why you feel defensive after the response you got to the previous post. Might I recommend that you consider turning off the comments on this post if you'd rather not hear what people want to say?

Just a gentle suggestion.

None of us will think any less of you.

And yes, she's YOUR child. And whatever parenting techniques work for other people don't necessarily work for you and Jen and Punk. I'm sorry you feel that you have to defend that decision.

[ntiva.livejournal.com]

I may be wrong here, but I don't think it's as much that Jude doesn't want to hear people want to say, I think she would just appreciate some support and understanding. Having people start (unfairly) bashing Jen just adds to Jude's stress. That's the last thing she needs right now. Sure, turning off the comments would eliminate the opportunity for people to (incorrectly) point out how they think Jen is not doing her part, but it would also eliminate the opportunity for her to receive words of encouragement from her friends who love her.

[hetterrific.livejournal.com]

I've been meaning to ask this for a while... if you're Mama, who is Jen?

It's difficult to be the primary caregiver because you never get time off to yourself, it seems. I've tried having my husband go into soothe C, but she doesn't want his brand of soothing-- she wants mine. I completely understand where you're coming from. Sometimes I get so pissed at my husband because he can sleep through the night (snoring, as well) and I am up every time. It's not his fault though, just like it isn't Jen's.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Jen would like Punk to call her Mommy.

Right. It's not her fault she snores, and it's not bad that she can fall asleep at the drop of a hat. It is what it is, even if I think it's annoying! :)

[anitsirk.livejournal.com]

Hannah was the type of baby who would cry and get herself more worked up. There are some very clear memories of her crying until she puked, then an exhausted and crying me having to change her entire crib. She did grow out of it, I don't remember when, but she now goes to bed all by herself and sleeps a solid 8 hours.

Lack of sleep just fucking sucks.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Gosh, I hope I don't have to wait until she's 8!!

[yip95.livejournal.com]

When we had Shaya, we got to the over-exhausted point where, if CIO would have worked, we might have tried it. And we are SO not the people to CIO...we were just f'ing tired, yo.
But, yeah, she was a complete non-self-soother. It just NEVER would have worked in the slightest. Once she had a good round of OT, though (yoga, mostly), she integrated her shit and was a bit better. But then she went home, so we didn't get to reap the benefits.

Here's hoping Punk moves through this tooth soon and goes back to letting her moms get some sleep so they can participate in the all-DAY disco party.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I really think Punk's got a bunch of sensory issues that I hope she can work through without a lot of hassle. I'd love to get some OT up in here but I know that she wouldn't qualify for Early Intervention (she doesn't have any sort of diagnosis or environmental risk, and I know she doesn't have enough delay) and I can't afford to hire someone privately. Ugh. Hopefully she will work through it.

I would love an All Day Disco Party! You and Z and E are of course invited. :)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I really hope it's teeth. Seriously. Because that's, like, something tangible.

(frozen)

[lelumama.livejournal.com]

I'm not sorry for what I said because I believe it, but I am sorry if I hurt her or your feelings. Truly. Don't be mad.

And I also don't believe people were bashing Jen just to bash her or because they think she's an awful parent or spouse, it's because you seem really stressed and tired and they want to have your back. There is ALWAYS more a partner can do to make your workload a little easier, ya know?

And you know I have your back with the CIO or with anything. CIO is bullshit.

(frozen)

[ntiva.livejournal.com]

I may be speaking for Jude here, but I think people bashing Jen is a source of more stress, not something that makes her feel better. In this case, I think "having her back" would be just to let her vent in her journal without having her feel bad when people start bashing her wife.

[evewasframed.livejournal.com]

It does suck for Jen when she is trying to care of the babes and Punk only wants you. Ava was in hysterics last night for Matt for about 30 minutes and then settled right down when I took her. It probably hurt his feelings, I know it would have hurt mine. All us new parents are just doing the best we can!

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Ugh, yeah. It's so sad and awful, and must hurt so much. :(

[kathrynt.livejournal.com]

We finally had to get to the CIO point with Lillian because I was on the doorsteps of the nuthouse -- I mean, seriously, I went to the ER for a crisis psych evaluation. BUT, and I want to stress this, she was thirteen months old. We had gotten to the point that when she wanted me and didn't get me, she wasn't hysterical, she was MAD. I'm willing to let her be mad, because we've all met the kid whose parents never let him be mad, and that doesn't go well.

But your situation right now is something entirely different. Good for you for recognizing that. And yes, my husband can tell you with brutal honesty how much it sucks to come home, wanting nothing more than to see your beloved daughter, and have her only want the other parent instead.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Hey, everyone's gotta do what they've gotta do, you know? Each day is a different day, and you just keep trying until you find something that works that everyone can live with. That's the nature of the game.

And yes, I feel awful for Jen when the baby cries when she picks her up. It's just awful. :(

[estrange.livejournal.com]

That's awful people were bashing dear Jen, I'm sorry :(

I know the CIO method is very controversial - especially online (everything is very controversial online, isn't it?). I avoid talking about it. I used CIO method on both my kids but I rarely even discuss it.

I'm sorry you are getting so much unsolicited advice, I hate that too. I apologized to you before but again I am sorry that I also gave you unsolicited advice in the past. Sometimes I just get carried away & I have been trying very hard to change my ways on that - and doing well... so on that note. I am very sorry to hear about your sleep woes and I hope the little one will be sleeping through the night for you again very soon!

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I don't mind unsolicited advice, especially from people who have kids and have dealt with similar things. If I didn't want people's advice, I would close comments. But I like hearing what people have to say. (And oh my gosh, are you ever right about everything being controversial on the internet!!) I know that a LOT of people CIO and a lot of people are really very successful and pleased with it. And that is totally cool with me. People decide what is best for their kids and when, and then they do it. And if it works, yay! And if it doesn't, they look for something else.

I really think that CIO works... but I think it works for different kids for different reasons. And right now, it's not something we're open to because of how Punk is and how old she is and all of that, but that doesn't make anyone who CIOs a bad person or a bad parent. It just irked me that I said, very plainly, "We don't want to do CIO right now," and then got a bunch of "You have to CIO it is the only way," stuff that is (to me) kind of disrespectful since I specifically asked not to. You know? (And you didn't do anything like that. You're always good with me!!) xoxo

[artemis44.livejournal.com]

I REALLY empathize both with the need to vent about sleep/baby/etc. situations that involve my spouse (and perhaps a moment or two of her own humanness), but also about the need to not have people assume that my venting is the full story, but to recognize that it is just one slice, one tiny, aggravated, sleep-deprived slice of the whole..

And anyways, it was clear from your post(s) that Jen is often getting up, getting the baby, trying her darndest to be there for Gus, but that you recognize that Gus is in a mama-only phase, and that you end up having to pitch in even when you shouldn't *have* to. Cuz what, you're going to let your kid get hysterical just so you can have an equal distribution of labor? Yeah, right. (I do agree with the idea of occasionally having Jen take her and you leaving the house, as I've heard/seen that that can make a difference - the baby knows you're really not available, and figures out how to work with the other parent, which then transfers to times you are there... just a thought, when y'all are up for it...)

So you go ahead and vent, and just keep on keeping on... and GOOD FOR YOU for not wanting to CIO - Gus is still so tiny, and so young, and it sounds like this isn't an all-the-time situation, and honestly, it sounds more and more like teething, so it *will* pass!

Good luck, and remember to take all our comments (even mine, lol!) with a healthy grain of salt...

[siercia]

I would second the suggestion that perhaps getting out of the house for a night might actually help a lot - I don't know how babies can sense your presence, but they really can. Pushing her to have to deal with Jen, and removing yourself from the guilt ridden swooping in to save the day might help her get past only mama is good enough, and might also help Jen get a little bit better at helping her (not that I think she's NOT good, but getting thrown in the deep end, so to speak, can help you find resources you didn't know you had.)

I remember being totally freaked out the first day that I left Widget alone with Wiley for the whole day - even though I KNEW he was entirely capable of taking care of her. But letting them have that time together without me hovering in the background was awesome for both of them.

[siercia]

And also, if you want or need, I am happy to spend a night out there on baby duty so you both can get some sleep. Just say the word!

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Dude, I've seen you on no sleep, it's not pretty! :)

Thanks for the offer. Perhaps one night we should take you up on it not for sleeps, but for a *gasp* movie out or something.

[anaccidentofhope.wordpress.com (from livejournal.com)]

I am so very sorry. I didn't mean to bash Jen, but in rereading my comment I can see that it came off as if I was. I was reacting from a place where I know that Klove had been wanting to help me in the night, but couldn't get through that only-mommy-will-do scream and so we had found it easier to just pass Sassa off to me. Which just perpetuated the problem. But I don't know you and I normally know enough to know I don't have the full story.

Jen, I'm very sorry.

Chicory

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Oh, Chicory, you were fine. More than fine! I think, probably and sadly, because you know where I am coming from. I feel the same way about Klove in your situation as I'm sure you do about Jen. It's like doubly helpless - I feel helpless for my screaming child and I feel helpless for my sad wife. And then, guess what, I feel helpless for myself for being in the middle of it all, but that's how it goes.

I really enjoyed reading your post the other day about going through all of this with Sassa because it really felt good to me how you handled things, since she is old enough to really talk with you and breathe with you and hopefully internalize some of it in a way that isn't "I am a small person all alone in a big dark world!" I thought it was beautiful how caring and thoughtful you guys were with everything.

I can't speak for Jen, but I felt like your comment was out of experience and concern more than anything else. And even the folks who I feel /were/ Jen-bashing I'm sure were doing it out of some sort of concern and protection for me. And I do appreciate the sentiment, but not at the expense of my best girl.

xo

[ntiva.livejournal.com]

Jude and Jen (if you're reading),

I just want you to know my heart is with you right now. It's so hard, but it does get better. We had a hard time with Mary sleeping around that age, too. I don't have much to offer, but I know you two are doing a great job and Punk is so lucky to have you as her mamas.

Love,
Dina :)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Well, see, the fact that you are still alive and smiling is all the motivation I need! I remember that you were very tired all the time. I don't know how you managed with Mary AND Alex. You are a goddess!!

Swaddling at Six Months... I totally get that

[(Anonymous)]

My kiddo, while an "easy baby," needed the consistency and comfort of a swaddle to calm herself for at least five months, if not more.

Should you want some assvice on a really-hard-to-get-out-of-swaddle (that we nicknamed "The Hungarian"), I'll send you a diagram. It involves two swaddle blankets and keeps their arms immobile. Sounds mean, but worked so well that I love to pass it on to those who might need it?

Just email me at breedavidson at earthlink dot net and I'll hook you up.

[anaccidentofhope.wordpress.com (from livejournal.com)]

oh, I'm so relieved that I didn't give offense! It's just so damned hard when the baby doesn't sleep and you get so tired and all your other mommy friends are all bragging about how their kid sleeps for 52 hours straight and you just want to KILL THEM so that you can carve out a nice little sound-proof cave in their corpse and finally get some sleep. One particularly bad weekend, when Klove was sick and I was recovering from pneumonia but not fast enough because I was only getting to sleep in 3 hour spurts, I actually took my kid out to my parent's house for the weekend. It was enough of a different environment that Sassa was content to let other people soothe her (I could pretend to be gone) and I got to nap during the days. From what I've read here, I'm not sure that you have family that can serve the same purpose, and I'm not sure the punk reacts to new surroundings with as much glee as Sassa does, but it's just an example of some of the problem-solving and creative thinking we had to do to survive.

And how hard it is to do such thinking when your brain is made of soggy cheerios.

chicory

[fleur.livejournal.com]

From all of my mama buddies, it seems to me that CIO is like potty training -- timing is extremely controversial and discussing it on the internet will net you at least one response similar to that if you had suggesting sawing off one of your baby's arms.

[siercia]

Hahahahaha!

You are SO right.

And of course, the reality of the entire CIO thing is that if it IS the right answer, it's going to be so in a different way for nearly every baby - different ages, different styles, different times of day, AND that it ISN'T going to be the right answer for every baby. And only people who actually know your kid, who have spent time with them, and understand how they tick can be at all qualified to comment on how you're approaching things.

The internet is great, about 80% of the time. The rest, it's a giant cesspool of obnoxious.

[rizzo41.livejournal.com]

I have the solution to all your sleeping problems. It's pretty old skool, but it worked for our grandparents. Whiskey. A bottle for Gus, a bottle for you, everybody sleeps.

I can sympathize with the annoyance of listening to another person sleep, even if you aren't actually annoyed that they are sleeping. t will actually say "I'm going to fall asleep now." .. ten second pause .. SNRRRXXXX! wtf?

I can also sympathize with being sleep deprived. I don't think I've slept more than a couple hours at a stretch since I got sick in October. Sadly it's my own goddamn snoring that's waking me up and neither couching nor earplugs will help. Sigh.

I taped a Far Side to my desk because it reminds me of you and makes me snicker. Midvale School for the Gifted.

Loves to you all.

[tea-soaked.livejournal.com]

I had to go back and re-read the post because I didn't really remember reading much about Jen. *hugs*

[amyura.livejournal.com]

Wow, I must have missed that. I'm sorry that happened!

You know how I feel about CIO, at any rate. *hugs*

Comiserating

[(Anonymous)]

Been there, doing it again. :(

For better and for worse, bio-mom is often home base. Liam is teething again, and for the first time in a year, is up several times at night, eats even less than usual, and is more difficult and cranky during the day than he has ever been. And, he only wants Eileen. I know sometimes at night when she's desperate to sleep (specially since she's pregnant again and exhausted) she hates me for it, but me trying to comfort him, only delays the inevitable, and now that he can speak his mind clearly breaks my heart with "No, Mama go away. Go somewhere else, I want Mommy." I keep trying. She keeps trying.

It sucks for both or us. In very different ways. We just keep working it.

*hugs*
-K.

way down at the bottom

[artjax.livejournal.com]

This comment may get lost in the shuffle, and maybe I'll cross post it on Jen's blog, but still.

I'd never blindly take EITHER of your sides. You're both new parents, and you're both dealing with a totally different, yet same set of challenges. Jude, you're struggling with lack of sleep, and a baby that wants one and only one brand of soothing right now, and that is hella stressful. Jen, you're dealing with working a job outside of the home, being away, knowing that your wife is struggling, and trying to contribute, only to be thwarted by a baby that wants mama and mama only. Sucks on both ends.

I totally read the post as a cry for suggestive help. Examples, books, what other people do, did, etc. Maybe some support in the "i'm sorry it sucks right now but it does get better," type camp. I know you were NOT looking for Jen bashing, and well, that's what happened a bit. And honestly, I think it's fucked up when people, especially in online forums say things like "I'm sorry but I feel how I feel because...." That did nothing to help either of you, or August, or the situation, and it just made you both feel like crap.

Maybe people have short memories but I recently (like Monday) recall a post about Jen being amazing in a bunch of ways, including the massive amounts of outside snow removal work that must be done in a NE winter. I read this, and remembered it. And I'd never bash either of you in times of crisis, only offer constructive (And Chicory, I thought your comment was that - it did NOT bash, but offered possible solutions to direct problems) help if I can, and just let you both know how much I love and support you all.

That's it. A lot of those comments just ruffled my feathers a bit - and I've got both your backs. xo

[sassywoman.livejournal.com]

Have you tried tylenol for Gus when she wakes? We started giving Emma the smallest dose of infant motrin when she turned 6 months when it was evident she was in horrible pain. It seems to help her considerably (and us all for that matter).

I don't know if the answer to this question got lost in a comment I never received ... but would you like for me to send the extra prevacid powder I have???

*HUGS* to you and Jen. These moments do pass but unfortunately when Emma is teething she reverts back to multiple wakings at night too. :(

[violane.livejournal.com]

Your last paragraph is why I never really offer advice ... babies are all just so different. It sounds like you both are in tune with what August needs, and she is lucky and loved.

[iansha.livejournal.com]

I've been reading and I just want to reach out and hug you tight. I'm sorry things with Gus are so rough right now. And I know (as well as you do) rough times with Gus can = rough times with Spouse. I hope you and Jen are stealing some moments together to keep your bond solid, too.

You're the EI gal, but teething was my first guess for the current only-mama stuff, but I wondered about the swaddling. Any other signs of sensory issues? Did they ever check her for colic, also? These are things I wonder when reading.

*hugs tight*