AP Sheep

[judecorp]

I am so sick of the "Attachment Parenting" community. I don't know why I try to stay involved. I am so tired of all of the parenting dick-sizing and general "I am better than you" attitude pervasive with these folks a lot of the time. Bleh.

Parenting is hard, and the majority of parents out there are making decisions they think are best for their families. Does it make anyone a better parent to point out the "flaws" in another parent?

There is seriously a post today about whether or not it is possible for an AP parent to have non-AP parent friends. ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME? If Sarah uses a stroller and Bri does sleep training and Chris fed the twins formula and Valerie's daughter sleeps all night in a crib in her own room and someone else weaned their child after only 6 months - who cares? And if I don't do some of those things, we can't be friends? Seriously?

I don't understand these people.

Comments

[jeney.livejournal.com]

Oh, you said it! Yes. You are so right.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Awwh, Jeney thinks I'm right!

(This must not be politics.) xo

[ladygreyy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've been meaning to talk to you about that. We can't be friends anymore. You...you let your kid breathe AIR. How could you?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

CITY AIR.

Clearly my air is better because it is in the COUNTRY.

[ladygreyy.livejournal.com]

Yes but mine's OHIO air. Can't you smell the buckeyes? ;)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

If they're peanut butter and chocolate, I'm totally in!

[shanneeluee.livejournal.com]

Mmm...I love me some Buckeyes.

[oddharmonic.livejournal.com]

I let my child snorkel in a water table. And she totally didn't drown or anything!

[lorac.livejournal.com]

My kid does that all the time. Well, without the snorkel. :) She assures me it is the best way to enjoy a water table.

[calledmara.livejournal.com]

This is why I won't ever have babies. I looove children, but I fucking hate parents.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Word.

[shanneeluee.livejournal.com]

I'll be your friend. :-)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yay!

[quezz.livejournal.com]

Confused. Attached = Co-dependent? Attached = Inextricably linked to causing others' suffering?

Confused. Maybe it is better that I am childless.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Attachment Parenting is theoretically this parenting style that is (at bare bones) basically a lot more child-led than parent-led. As such, there's less emphasis on things like scheduling or routines, less emphasis on many types of discipline, and there tends to be an overwhelming tendency to breastfeed (for extended periods), co-sleep, wear babies in slings, etc.

In theory, it's all quite nice. But on the internet? It's like a mafia of angry, judgmental moms a lot of the time.

[jeney.livejournal.com]

I have a kid in high school, so I always think: Advanced Placement parenting.

[quezz.livejournal.com]

Hee hee! I'm a high school teacher, and it's what I first thought of too.

[thatpatti.livejournal.com]

this is why i was into "attachment parenting" for about 5 minutes before i refused to associate myself with that label. of course, i totally flunked out when i did CIO. ;)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Ha ha ha - you get an F!!! :) That must be why I like you.

I hate when I really love the ideas of something but don't like the people. I had a brief foray into paganism in college. I love paganism.. but the pagans I met and tried to join up with? Eesh.

[marlatiara.livejournal.com]

I've had it happen to me on the other side of things. It hurt.

I'm also wicked judgmental - but I do try very hard to say "OK, you love your kid and you're doing the best you can."

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying people don't make judgments about AP-type folks. I mean, I get it too. I hear several times a week how I am basically ruining everyone's life by sleeping with my kid and not letting her scream until 4am to teach her that missing me is bad. And then when she didn't walk right away? Oh, of course it was because "I must just hold her all the time." *eyeroll*

I totally get wanting to find likeminded people. But I don't get needing to put folks down or feeling like someone who thinks differently than you do can't possibly be worth talking to.

[marlatiara.livejournal.com]

Yeah.

It's all biting me in the ass, personally. Because the parents who do everything I would *never* do still have kids who can walk and talk and stuff. That hits me hard all the time - that I do and do and do what I think is best and right and it is not going to change a thing. Maybe that has made me more tolerant? (Nah, but...yes...a little...)

Sorry, my own issues are escaping their cage...

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

No, it's cool. No need to apologize. I can totally admit that there were more than a few times where I would go into a home where the kid was basically on the floor having to entertain him/herself every waking minute of the day in a questionably neglectful home and OF COURSE was walking and I would feel like dog crap.

I really do believe that we birth the children we are meant to raise, and Ruby is with you BECAUSE of how you love her, not in spite of it.

Sorry for the spiritual woo woo stuff.

[halleyscomet.livejournal.com]

Oh noes! You have a different parenting style than me!!!! The horror!!!

Sheesh.

*hug*

You're doing a great job. It's not the way I'd do it, but that's because we're different people with different lives, not because one parenting style is "better" than the other. Why can't people just see that someone else is doing things differently without automatically making value judgments?

[amyura.livejournal.com]

Maybe I'm less inclined to take them seriously because I have met a few of the dick-sizing parents still on my flist. It's all some of them have. And for a surprising lot of them, it's really all centered around THINGS. Like who has the coolest/most non-western/most babywearing devices, who has a king-sized bed and can co-sleep with all three kids and the family dog, who gets to be a SAHM and unschool the kids and grow all their own food while the sperm donor is off working to support the whole enterprise, who breastfed the longest.

I'm a pretty big boob nazi, as you know, but lately I've been getting sick of nursing Julia as much as she wants (we've already set limits but I want to set more) and I'm wondering what you DO with someone like me....who may end up doing parent-led weaning of my toddler. Where do I fit in? The mainstreamers think I'm weird for nursing past 6-12 months, but for some of the hardcores, saying no to your kid's nursing request, ever, is verboten.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Well see, I think if more people were like you (or me?) and said, "Hey, where do I fit in here?" it would be more apparent that things are not quite so black and white. I know a TON of extended nurses who nightweaned their toddlers... yet are still nursing past two. And they get a lot of flak for nursing big kids, but they also get flak for nightweaning. SERIOUSLY?

I guess I just really hate when the parent-bashing goes around and it inevitably comes down to three things: formula, cribs, and day care. And really? My kid is currently sleeping in her crib, drank formula for a year and it saved her life, and spends way too much time in day care. And if anyone could have heard the howls that came out of her mouth when I *gasp* DARED to go to the bathroom after work in our (sadly) limited time together, there would be no doubt to her attachment. ;)

My annoyance is when it's less about actual parenting decisions and more about parenting props. Respecting the child? Nurturing? Can be done with breasts, bottles, cribs, co-sleepers, family beds, wooden toys, and even PLASTIC.

[halleyscomet.livejournal.com]

My youngest sister nursed until she was close to 5. Doctors recommend nursing as long as both parent and child are comfortable with it. In developing countries the recommendation is to nurse as long as possible so the mother's immune system cleans up the child's food. This whole 6-12 month nonsense is a social convention with a tenuous relationship to biology at best. I sincerely hope you find the nursing pattern and weaning age that works best for you and your daughter. Convention, AP NAZIS and "main stream" attitudes be damned.

[amyura.livejournal.com]

Yeah, my kid's almost three. The original plan was CLW, but I'm currently tandem nursing her with her baby sister. Oh, and she's not so into the whole eating food thing and can kinda get away with that because the boob juice fills the gap. Good times.

[skatured.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was just thinking to myself today about how LJ is so full of judgmental mom's and I wondered if maybe it's because they need validation? (okay all of them are on parenting101...ha ha) anyway...it's sort of like "you insecurity is showing". Not to say that we aren't all insecure. Sigh. What am I saying? I don't know. I know what you mean, that is what I am saying.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yes! I think we are ALL insecure. And I think we have good reason to be. How many things in the world are blamed on moms? I mean, mental illness is sometimes blamed on moms. Discipline problems - blamed on moms. Crime? Moms. I think moms are so used to having to defending themselves that they are starting to eat their own.

And that's so, so sad.

[lickingtoad.livejournal.com]

I'm not crazy because Mom made me -- I'm crazy because Mom + Dad = micro-managing control freak + laissez-faire social misfit! (Also, my sister is probably affected. I can't say how much because I'm crazy. Ha!)

[whuffle.livejournal.com]

Ugh I hate this sort of parental dick-waving. I know people who do it unconsciously and those who do it proudly. Pisses me off either way though I can forgive those who don't realize they are doing it.

I have never bothered to put a label on our parenting style but yes, by your definitions, it would only sort of be attachment parenting because we do daycare and we go out for nights as grown ups without our kid and we do try to keep him sleeping in his crib when reasonable. We never specifically set out to have a certain parenting style, we are just going with the flow and doing what is right for our family. Yes, we co-sleep part time because its easier when C needs to be snuggled for a long time to go back to sleep or when his acid reflux was bothering him or when he's stuffy from a cold. Yes, we use a sling because sometimes its the only way he'll let us get anything done; with him on a hip so he can watch and feel like he's participating. Yes, we also do half formula because my milk supply is only tenuously able to keep up with that which I suspect is related to my thyroid problems but no doctor has ever said that they agreed with that diagnosis. Point is, I try not to judge how other people parent because I am still trying so hard to learn from them to see if something I'm NOT doing could work better for our family. I think that looking at different parenting choices in that light is a healthier way to do it than trying to make it into a competition.

Just stay away from dick-wavers and Nazis of any subject. That's my tact at least. If I stay away from them, then they can't judge me or make me feel bad for refusing to live up to their standards. And ultimately, that's all this is about: their standards. Sorry, but I've never lived by other people' standards and I'm not about to start now just because I've got a kid. Choosing to have a kid wasn't something I did to be "just like everyone else" so why should I expect myself to parent "just like everyone else".

Keep on parenting they way that works for you and f*ck them that can't see it as personal rather than public choices.

[oddharmonic.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much why I quit the altparent community -- at the time I left, it was a morass of "more alt than you" contests and a supposed 16-year-old with twins with a very convoluted back story fawning over every comment by Elf Sternberg.

I have found a lot less open judgment and a lot more acceptance being involved with the PTA at my local elementary school. I don't know if it's just people being less openly judgmental in person, but it's nice.

[sassywoman.livejournal.com]

Your frustration is exactly why I left the b/f community and all other communities that left a bad taste in my mouth. I have a lot of mom's on my f/l who do things differently then I do and totally respect their decisions. It's nice to open up my friends page and see just my friends.

[oppendonnell.livejournal.com]

I was so horrified by the AP folks that by the time J. was born, I was like, "He will eat formula in his crib at daycare in a stroller all at the same time!!" I ended up being a big freakin' hippie, of course, but sort of in spite of myself....a lot of that AP stuff worked for our family, but I would never judge anyone who didn't do it.

[drainbead.livejournal.com]

Oh that post pissed me off. I hope her kids all become biters or something.

[siercia]

Damn, that's some stupid right there.

In my world, if you're so insecure that you can only be friends with people who think exactly like you, well, they're welcome to you =) It's rather like the uber-religious who refuse to be associate with anyone who's not also uber religious, for fear they might be tempted... if your faith is that weak, well, perhaps you're not so Christian as you thought then, eh?

Even being as mainstream as we ultimately were, I *still* feel stuck between - we (or I at least) don't quite fit on either side of the aisle. But it works for me, so I'll stick with it.

[kaleidoscopeeye.livejournal.com]

I run into that a lot, with mothers in general. It really is ridiculous.

[stapynam.livejournal.com]

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE!! in fact, i've been meaning to take that comm and the breastfeeding comm off my FL, because they are not places to get help/support/advice, they are places to make you feel like total shit, or incredibley self righteous.

[vttwinmama.livejournal.com]

it's so funny that some people are so ATTACHED to their own ideas about the "right" way to parent. i had some ideas of how i wanted to do things...and then the twins were born and most of that went out the window! haha! i realized we were gonna do whatever we needed to do to survive. some of that was in line with what i thought i would do and some of it so was not. it is kind of funny, actually, to see what we are doing now and what i thought we would be doing. i never thought we would be co-sleepers. but, in the middle of the night when one of them is cranky, you can bet sure as shit we throw them right in bed with us. and when the other one wakes up, one of us takes that one into the guest room and co-sleeps with that one in there. but we also do daycare and strollers and CIO/sleep training when needed and we use plastic (in the micorwave and the dishwasher. for shame!) and don't feed organic all the time, and we let them eat sugar. and, shockingly enough, we are all thriving (for the most part!) and the world has not ended. there is so much other shit to worry about in the world, that honestly, i don't have the time or energy to criticize parenting choices of others. and i sure as hell will not turn friends away because of those choices. being new in vt, i gotta take all the friends i can, crazy attachment parenting freaks or not! :P

[mtgirl.livejournal.com]

I had to do the same thing and beg off the AP folks. Mainly, because one day I thought about how I wanted my child to grow up balanced and tolerant, and these were not the folks to teach it.

I started to hang out with the sleep training, plastic toy folks, and I have to say that I liked them SO much better. They made me feel good about myself as a parent AND as a person who is something more than a parent. (We didn't sleep train, but I like to hang out with the folks who do...go figure).

[dustyskinandall.livejournal.com]

Ugh.

That sucks. I have to skim communities like that at best.

[(Anonymous)]

You know how I feel about those people. Anyone who doesn't want to be friends with me... well, not only am I not interested in being friends with them, but I would happily tell them to BITE ME. BITE ME HARD.

I actually have a friend I can't really abide anymore for extended periods because her AP-ness makes me ill. Or, not even her AP-ness... her self-doubt and the way she takes every parenting decision SO seriously, as though each one is SOOOOO important. As though SHE AND SHE ALONE is going to be the FIRST PARENT EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD to NOT EFF UP HER KID. She is going to do everything "RIGHT."

So maybe that makes me just as bad as the people who can't be friends with non AP people? Or does it just mean I can't stand judgmental people who think they are better than I am?

BITE ME HARD.
/angry rant

-Bri

[mayna.livejournal.com]

I think that's just the internet in general. There's people who are hardcore into bunnies and they'll be rabid about similar things too! And the cloth diaper-ers are anti anti disposables. and so on. I know that the more kids you have the more you mellow out because I have memories about being rabid about this and that, and now I just don't care, and with 3 running me ragged I just want to be a "good enough" mom! Actually I feel like "that mom", you know, the one everyone gives glares at when she's at walmart and yelling at her 10 barefoot kids. (ok my kids aren't that bad, at least not when we're out in public, but still!)

There's the local AP Village group that is online with an emphasis on developing real life friendships, and that group is totally NOT anything like the attachment parenting LJ group. People know each other in person and it's more about finding your "tribe" than any dick waving, and it's really nice.

[sareste.livejournal.com]

You said it, sister. Thank gods most of the moms I encounter like this are online, where I can scroll on by.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_journey/]

When I lived in Toronto, my yard-sharing neighbour was a mother of 3 whom I greatly admired. I remember commenting on her patient, fair and reasonable approach, and she told me that her only goal was to give her children a happy childhood. The simplicity struck me... It wasn't about making her look like a good mom, it was about teaching her children to create, appreciate and seek joy. So sad that people use their children as pawns to make others feel bad about their choices.