Space Hogs

[judecorp]

I'm wondering when it is that women/girls learn to take as little space as possible, and men/boys learn to take as much space as possible. I began wondering about this on the campus bus this morning.

I ride the campus bus for about 15 minutes from my parking lot on West Campus to my Big Gay Job at the Union. Usually I can find a seat, but sometimes, depending on what time, I stand. I stood for a little bit this morning, but as some people began getting off, I could see there were some seats in the back. Three of them, to be exact. One in the way back, and one on either side in the back.

There was one seat that was all but obliterated because a male student (assuming student) was sitting with his legs spread so wide open that his left leg was blocking the open seat. He was taking over 1.5 seats on a full bus.

Guess which seat I chose of the three? :)

He was very obviously put out, and his body language was rather hostile. He never moved his leg, and I practically sat on him and squeezed my booty in the space he'd provided, and continued to relax until I had pushed him partially out of my seat. He held steadfast onto that extra space, though, and frowned, and was very stiff and angry.

I wonder if his reaction would have been the same if I had been some traditionally beautiful young female student. I wonder if he would have shifted, or been more polite. (I'm fairly ambiguous today on first glance - cargo pants, hooded sweatshirt, Adam's baseball cap, and I'm bound pretty tightly.) I wonder a lot of things.

But mostly I'm wondering how this stuff is learned. I don't remember anyone ever telling me to sit as smallishly as possible, although I have always watched women cross their legs (which takes up much less room and - gods forbid! - conceals the cooter!) or at the very least put their knees together.

Either way, I eventually took back my whole damned seat, suckah. He murmured something at me when he got off the bus. Oops. :)

Comments

[bloodywanker.livejournal.com]

It isn't called being a man, it is called being rude.

[thatpatti.livejournal.com]

that's what i was thinking...

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Ya, dude, I totally agree that it's rude to take up a ton of space. However, the whole "sitting with your legs wide open" thing is a very male phenomenon - as if sitting any tighter would, you know, squish ther merchandise.

Girls are totally taught to sit all tiny and crossed.

[wannabe-lola.livejournal.com]

Good for you, Smurfy. I've spent a lot of time wondering similar questions. I've also wondered if the question of "space" is related to the current standard of female beauty - emaciated. The models who epitomize beauty these days are unhealthily thin in most cases and they take up VERY little space.

I was working on my M.A. in Womens' Studies before I left grad school, and it's constantly frightening to me, based on all the material I read and saw there, that some people still don't believe there is gender inequity in our society.

Ah well... Off the soapbox now

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I absolutely believe that society encourages women to take up as little space as possible in lots of ways: like with sitting, but also with body weight like you mention. We're also taught to use quieter voices, to not argue, to lower our eyes, to be demure, to play coy, to "get a man," and a whole host of other things.

I'm so glad I'm a boy. :)

Nicely done.

[kungfoogirl.livejournal.com]

I've wondered this too.

My brother is a BIG fellow. And he has the "sit with your legs wide open" habit too. Used to piss me off on long car rides. We'd be in the back seat, and I'm be confined to all but one little corner. Finally it pissed me off enough to start pushing back, and he chilled out.

Being little, I have to stake out my space in some way, or I get bumped and pushed and crushed. I talk louder than I ought to so that people notice me. I'm a little fidgety when standing in lines. And large crowds make me absolutely cranky.

This makes me think of the jerk at the Tenacious D concert that almost got punched because he jostled me around too much. Damn I hate that.

At any rate, kudos to you for fucking with this guy. He totally deserved it, IMHO.

(I'm using the Daniel pic because, well, that was a rather brave thing you did, and Daniel is all about bravery!)

Re: Nicely done.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

With karate, I will kick his ass.

Hope and I were definitely both hoping that he muttered "fag." Oh, I hope so! I hope he thought I was a boy. Hee!

My brother doesn't sit all splayed-legged like that. I don't think. We never took car trips, but I don't think he does. But Aaron does. I've never seen someone (especially someone his size, as he's shortish and skinny) take up so much sitting room. Lots of people have even commented on it to him.

What's up with that?

[auntiesiannan.livejournal.com]

vaguely related personal anecdote:

I was on the 7 train coming home with a reasonably large shopping bag. Since I got on at Times Square I had a seat, and as is customary on subways I sat with the bag protectively between my legs. At 42nd these two blowsy yentas got on with humpteen kids between them that they were taking to a Mets game. The kids were manic from hell, yet the dingbats insisted that they all find seats. Surprise! It was rush hour, there weren't any. So the more offensive looking behemoth starts in on this sotto voce diatribe about how people should give their seats to children, and glaring in MY direction, says "and people should close their legs!" Mind you, I was not sitting splayed, I merely had a gap of six inches or so where the Big Brown Bag was resting.

So your charming auntie glares back at the mombie and says "AND IF YOU HAD KEPT YOUR OWN DAMN LEGS SHUT IN THE FIRST PLACE YOU WOULDNT HAVE TO FIND SEATS FOR ANY BRATS."

That shut her ass up.

Ah, Tales of the 7 Train...

[laughingsal.livejournal.com]

You actually said that?! HAHAHA

[troilee.livejournal.com]

Oh yes! Score one for the non-breeders!

:)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Holy crap! That's funny, but rude as hell.

WOW.

[carina-s.livejournal.com]

OMG Sitting on bus seats is SO HOTT!

[siercia]

I've often wondered the same thing, watching men and women sit on the T. Of course, I have issues of my own, being overweight, and very conscious of taking up "too much" space. I pretty regularly try to shrink myself to be as little as possible, if such a thing can be accomplished by an act of will.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

They don't make seats for average-size people. They make seats for tiny people. It's one thing to be bigger than a too-small seat, and another thing to fit just fine and splay out.

And you know what else I've noticed on the bus? When there's a heavier person, if it's a woman, she will apologize and try to move over a little and "be as small as possible" like you say, but when it's a guy, I've never experienced any shifting or moving.

[laughingsal.livejournal.com]

I think I am forever grateful that I am not generically attractive so that it is easier to spot superficial jerks like him. I remember one time I was working on a set, and looked like shit with grungy clothes, bad hair and plaster dust covering my face. This guy I was working with was incredibly rude to me. A few weeks later, I was "done up properly" and saw him again, and he was oh so nice to me before he realized where he knew me from.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I think I am forever grateful that I am not generically attractive

Just a little Public Service Announcement that I totally disagree. But that sucks to be treated differently based on appearance.

I'm with ya....

[scirocco.livejournal.com]

But I'm not sure it's a girl versus boy thing entirely. I had some woman kick me yesterday on the T, from two seats away, because she had canted herself sideways, and crossed her legs ACROSS an entire seat JUST to kick me, over a seat away.

Sometimes, I'll cram myself in next to these people taking up extra space, just to get them back in their own seat. I'm pretty sure it's a rude thing, although I'd wager men are probably rude like that more often than women. I don't know. My mother taught me to take up a reasonable amount of space, and to be accomodating for others. Just seems to be the right thing to do.

Re: I'm with ya....

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

The woman who did that was certainly rude. I know that you are not a space hog, and that you are one of the most considerate people I know.

You, however, are /so/ not the standard guy. You are way more considerate and wonderful. :)

[noog.livejournal.com]

It's a terrible double standard, and it's one that we are raised to internalize. I remember growing up that my mother would constantly hound me to keep my legs together (or crossed) when I sat down, whereas she said nothing to my brother, and on long car rides when my brother and I were squished in the car seat and I asked him to keep his legs together, he would claim (as he took up 1.5 seats) that he couldn't put his legs any closer together without suffering extreme pain. Which is bullshit-- I've seen men sit with their legs fairly close together, and they didn't appear to be in agony.

It's hard to be assertive at home about my brother pushing his way into my space-- my parents have always supported him more, as the man of the household-- but on my own, I'm trying to learn to reclaim my right to take up space, and to not relinquish my space every time I see a man walk by. I'm learning to start sitting with my legs open, to not cover up my bearded clam (*snicker*) whenever I sit down. (Sometimes, when I'm bored in my classes, I look under the desks at the student's legs-- I usually find that I'm the only female student who isn't sitting with her legs demurely crossed. It's interesting to observe and try to draw conclusions from people's unconscious body language.) I'm also trying to examine the phenomenon of passing others on the sidewalk. I tend to notice that when a man and a woman pass each other, the man will look right at the woman and the woman will lower her eyes. I also notice that the man takes up much more pavement space, and a woman is much more likely to move out of the way when a man passes. I've been trying to not move out of the way quite so much, and force the man to move around me a good half of the time, and I want to work on eye contact, although I'm not entirely comfortable in that area yet.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

How fascinating. I'd love to conduct some of this research with you.

Did I ever tell you about my little door opening study? When I took Social Psychology as an undergrad, a bunch of us stood in front of doors and held doors open for people. Women would walk through all the doors, but a lot of men refused to walk through doors held open by women.

Suck.

[whod81.livejournal.com]

uh yo. its uncomfy to have your legs together. like... you know we have testicles and things down there.

[bloodywanker.livejournal.com]

Yeah! you have to keep a breeze going down there or things start going wrong.

[happy2beso.livejournal.com]

Oh!

Lots of good words in the post/thread.

Cooter
Splayed
Balls

Golly, I'm in linguistic heaven.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I'm here for you.

[hoo.livejournal.com]

SMURF!



I think you've found the public transport equivalent of Road Rage. Seat Rage maybe? At any rate, this is why I never sit on the subway.

[indigodove.livejournal.com]

All of these little issues contributed to my decision to drive to work and pay for parking when I was a receptionist in downtown Pittsburgh (before social work). I hated the bus because it WAS "okay" for a guy to take up space, but not me. You are right Jude, somehow we women get a message to take as little space as possible...and no one taught me this, I just got the message, y'know?

Oh well...but I gotta get back to my schoolwork.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

no one taught me this, I just got the message, y'know?

Socialization is so sneaky.

I wonder, completely off topic, why when I say things like "this person took up more space because it was a male," I instantly become a man-hater. I don't hate men, but this is something that men do.

Ugh.

[zarabeth.livejournal.com]

Been there and done that. =)

See
http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=zarabeth&itemid=17839

btw

[zarabeth.livejournal.com]

I also object to the cramming in next, which tends to be a "man" thing. It's one thing when it's crowded -- then you really don't have any choice. But perhaps because I am of the scrawny persuasion, people seem to love to crash right into the space next to me, EVEN WHEN THERE ARE TONS OF SEATS. This is a thing that I just can't understand. I should be penalized by your annoying, uncomfortably close presence ... why ? Because I happen to be freakishly thin and wasn't using the space anyway ? Newsflash : get the fuck back from people you don't know. Give someone else the space you would want. Don't assume I am sane or that I want a companion -- try not to assume.

I thought "femme invisibility" meant something else. :-/

Ok, end of rant. =)

Re: btw

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I've never seen that, not on the campus buses. Usually people sit as far away from each other as possible.

Wow.

[jeffholton.livejournal.com]

Maybe he was worried that being Lebanese is contagious.

Do you look Lebanese?

*ducks*

[auntiesiannan.livejournal.com]

hmm...i thought i smelled babaganoush...

[saldemonium.livejournal.com]

I agree, wholeheartedly. Anytime I've been on the bus, men take up most of the space, and often, I've had to stand.

With one exception.

When I was pregnant, never did I get on a full bus, that someone, male or female, didn't stand and give me their seat.

Gods alive!

[imagine77.livejournal.com]

That is the cutest user icon EVER!