Small gains at an incredible cost

[judecorp]

I realize that the timing is terrible and likely disrespectful, but I'm reminded today of my disgust for the space program. What a money sink. What a waste.

And I'm sorry for the people who lost their lives, and I'm sorry that there was another "first" someone in there (but I wonder, why the first teacher waaaay before the first Israeli?), and I'm sorry that there is likely poisoned debris all over the place, and I'm sorry that people are sad, and I'm sorry that a piece of history was lost. (Or, rather, that several pieces of history were lost - especially seven poignantly vital pieces of history.)

But I can't stand the space program. And that probably makes me a shitty American or something. Oh wait - I already am. It just seems so frivolous and wasteful to toss all kinds of money into these enormous machines and space stations and stuff when the money could be used for Earth - for /our/ people and for /our/ environment and for /our/ livelihoods. It just seems like one gigantic dicksizing competition.

(This is in no way a disrespect to khaosworks, or anyone else who is really into the space program.)

Comments

[communista.livejournal.com]

Kudos to you for speaking your mind, love!

[binkiegirl.livejournal.com]

I'd go with bad timing on that...

[geniusorafool.livejournal.com]

The phrase "gigantic dicksizing competition" even brought a laugh out of me on this sad day.

[chaptal.livejournal.com]

I feel the program is a necessity. It has helped develop the communications industry, satelite phones information and so on. But when the big swinging dicks want to use it to shoot shit out of the sky with lasers...well, that's just nice.

[scottopic.livejournal.com]

Ditto.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I'll give you the communications. But is it a trade for all of the fuel used to send those things up, or all of the money spent, or all of the military uses?

Bleh. To me, it all seems like more for the upper class. I mean, if we end up "colonizing" space or whatever, who is it going to benefit? Certainly not anyone without a substantial income. I mean, really - they'd either use the place for a rich person's refuge when this planet goes to crap, or they'll use it as a storehouse for undesirables. Whee!

[dietbubba.livejournal.com]

But is it a trade for all of the fuel used to send those things up

It burns hydrogen and oxygen as its main form of propellant and the solid boosters use powdered aluminum and ammonium perchlorate (yes, I had to look that part up). I don't think we are going to run out of those anytime soon.

Re:

[chaptal.livejournal.com]

All this exploration is a spinoff of the pioneer spirit that's been around forever. Once the poles were arrived at, the big mountains climbed, the forests logged, and indigenous peoples enslaved or exterminated, there was nowhere to go but up. And right in the midst of the cold war, Sputnik went up, and America was pissed and scared.

Nowhere to go up, and out.

[brosie.livejournal.com]

In a way I sort of agree with you .. and in a way I disagree.

I can't help but be filled with immense curiosity about the universe.. and we don't know until we explore.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

But is that all we're doing? Exploring?

If that were the case, I don't think I'd be so irate.

[yarnaddict.livejournal.com]

I have to disagree with you on the necessity of the space program. As someone else said, we don't know until we explore. I believe the technological advances that have come about because of our efforts to move beyond the physical boundaries of our planet and understand what else lies out there, the knowledge gained, are well worth the money "sunk" into the space program. If we don't explore, we will never know. And the people who died today believed that.

I respect your right to speak your mind; I also wish I hadn't come across your LJ entry this morning.

I respect your right to speak your mind

[(Anonymous)]

*I respect your right to speak your mind; I also wish I hadn't come across your LJ entry this morning.*

Same here, but free speech is what we are all about, Normally I agree with "most" of what jude posts but today I think it was in bad taste. If this was something you believed in and someone posted something like this you would be ALL OVER THEM !!! (read some of your past entries) And that is why I am "Anonymous" for fear of a verbal whipping for speaking my mind and disagreeing with you.

Re: I respect your right to speak your mind

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

ALL OVER THEM

All over them? A little harsh, perhaps. Sure, I would voice my disagreement, same as you. I would just identify myself, not just by my ISP.

=)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry you were upset. Or are upset.

But I don't think we're just exploring. If everything were driven solely by curiosity, it'd be a whole different ballgame up there. And there would be more "players."

[yarnaddict.livejournal.com]

I think you are making a very sweeping condemnation of "the space program".

[jeffholton.livejournal.com]

I'd like to respectfully disagree with you as well.

I grew up on Star Trek and news about NASA's progress on this far-fetched idea of a reusable orbital device. I dreamed. I was a little boy who looked at the stars and imagined what we might be able to accomplish as a species if we stopped pointing guns at each other and started living for some loftier goals.

Just a little bit later, I understood exactly how monumental it was that Russian and American astronauts had met, smiled at each other, and shaken hands hundreds of miles over the Earth in the 1970s. And these were still MILITARY officers at that point! And this in the height of the Cold War!

The key point of the International Space Station for me is the notion that we are working together. This is not a platform for superiority, but for progress. It also gives us a global, common language with which we can discuss cooperation. The space program is not, in my opinion, a waste of funding. Quite the contrary, its very existence is the last great hope we have to work together for lofty, common goals, to begin shaping a world in which we live not as Americans and Iraqis and North Koreans, but as humans.

Thank you for your post, for in the aftermath of this, in my callousness and shock, I had forgotten to think about these things. You've helped me rearticulate concepts that I haven't thought about in a very long time.

What I think you and I would agree on very much is that we, as a race, MUST CHANGE THINGS HERE ON EARTH! We must work (and even fight, perhaps) for the preservation of our fellow human beings, for the advancement of our species, for our progress and growth and development, a development that affirms the contributions of ALL its members.

What we seem to disagree on is the role the space program could play in that. I hope you might agree with me that the program gives hope to many of us that we CAN continue to grow and progress in compassion and love.

That's why this is so devastating. Just for a moment, it suggests to those of us who, like me, see this program as a very symbol for such goals that our attempts to reach them have been futile.

May they not be futile. May we continue to dream. May we continue to look at the stars. May we continue to serve our fellow human beings in love.

[qaphsiel.livejournal.com]

I really think you should do a little research into the spinoff and tech transfer from the space program before you make such a condemation.

If you *really* want to talk about a dicksizing competition, you should be criticizing the Dept of Defense and the military-industrial complex. Dubya wants $500+ billion in the next budget for defense. The space program is peanuts compared to that.

[binkiegirl.livejournal.com]

Well said!

[naughtypixie.livejournal.com]

I'm also disagreeing, but not quite for the same reasons. I'd love to think that if money were not spent on the space program then it would go to useful, practical, and most importantly benificial programs here on earth. However, the bitter realistic bastard in me says differently.

If the money wasn't going to the space program (which, dick waving though it may be, is something which can be at least classed as a scientific and thus potentially benificial to humankind program) then it would be going to weapons development programs.

If not to weapons, then to "infrastructure development programs" which rarely means cheap housing for those that need it... and is more directly aimed at providing better roads for your local politician to drive to work better or more money towards clearing out the homeless so they can use the land to build more homeless. I've not yet seen a US governement willing to put the needs of the homeless or disadvantaged in front of the needs of the voters and those who pay for the campaigns.

I'm thrilled that the space program is still running. Wasteful as the current management may be, it's a step in a direction which is both politically sound as it gains more votes, and scientifically sound as it can potentially benefit the human race. The benefit may be long reaching but at least it's there.

I could go on for pages about how inificient the current program in but that would be pointless, but at least its a step in a humanitarian direction (even if it doesn't often seem that way). If you believe that your present government gives a square green shit about the current terrestrial issues otherwise then i'd suggest you're possibly living in a spaced out world already.

Having said all that, i'm getting very sick of the "heroes" hype that's going on at the moment. They were people up there doing a job and they had an accident, which is no more heroic than when a dildo factory explodes and kills seven.

Hahaha!

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, you are going to be so mind-fucked when the aliens come.

Re: Hahaha!

[chaptal.livejournal.com]

I wanna make out with an alien just like Capt. Kirk.

partly agree, partly disagree

[vorpalbla.livejournal.com]

Partly agree

Too much money is indeed spent on the space program, compared to the needs on earth. Yes, there have been scientific benefits, but I think a billion dollars in NSF grants or education funding accomplishes more than a billion dollars sent to N(eed) A(nother) S(even) A(stronauts). [I did not make up that joke, BTW, it dates back to the Challenger event.]

Partly disagree

I really like to watch, read, etc., about space flight. I think it can serve worthwhile goals. I certainly don't find the space program "disgusting." Less money should be spent for it, and the focus should be on scientific accomplishments rather than the "wow factor." If that means giving up cool things like manned Mars exploration for the foreseeable future, I'm disappointed not to get to see them, but so be it.

It was a competition in the Cold War era, but I don't think that's what it's about any more. Russia is clearly a second-rate space power these days, and Europe and Japan are gradually catching up. No one is competing against the U.S. for "biggest space dick" these days; indeed, nations celebrate when their astronauts get to ride on the shuttle.

[vidicon.livejournal.com]

I can never forget that the biggest result coming from the future of space "exploration" is not the boost to technology and communications and scientific research (and trust me, I read a good chunk of the experimental data from shuttle missions), but the fact that space colonization will eventually lead to off-site backup for human DNA and culture and for the other various forms of life and behavior that we've come to cherish.

There's valuable perspective gained from looking at home from very far away. Travel enriches.

As far as the science goes, the latest shuttle missions were studying an astoundingly efficient form of combustion—one that, as soon as it is possible to duplicate here in the gravity well, will vastly decrease our dependency on combustible fuels and decrease by vast amounts pollutants and waste heat.

Also, recent advances have shown that the dangerous chemicals in solid rocket boosters can be replaced with simple paraffin. You know. Candle-wax. Which could lead towards safer fuels in all of out combustible fuel technologies.

Neither of these potential advances have anything to do with military applications.

I certainly respect your opinion that the space program appears to be expensive and wasteful—but when I consider how much money is wasted on professional sports and the music and entertainment industry, I just have to shrug. We could easily trade the next Superbowl for a safer, redesigned (or perhaps just newer) reusable spacecraft. It's a matter of priorities, and I've always been on the side of advancing human understanding versus bread and circuses.

And that's without even mentioning expensive and wasteful and not-exactly-surgical military ventures of questionable ethics and questionable benefit to the average man.

*sigh*

[*]

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

You raise some very interesting points. And I'm glad that at least one person around here is following what's going on up there - I hate that the media doesn't talk about anything unless it's "tragic."

Yes, we spend a lot of money on the entertainment and sports industry. I wish we were a better people.