Keeping both feet on the ground.
Feb. 2nd, 2003 02:11 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
judecorpI have a really smart group of friends, and I really do appreciate and admire each and every one of you. I wanted to thank all of you who took time and thought to comment in my journal, especially those who actually signed their comments. It might seem like a silly thing, to want to know who said what, but in actuality, the deliverer of the message is sometimes as important as the message itself. I've been thinking about all of this stuff for a day and a half now, and have talked some of it out loud with Jen, and while it doesn't change my mind, it certainly did give me something to wrap it around for a bit. There are times in life, certain issues, when you hear a lot of different angles and feel the need to choose a side. For me, this is one of those times.
Why did you post this now? Isn't this terribly insensitive? I believe I alluded to this in the post itself. I don't think it's insensitive. I did acknowledge sadness for the individuals and their families. Is it poor timing? I'm still not sure. I mean, it's not like I have never had these thoughts before, but I /do/ manage to think about other things. The events of yesterday just brought it to the forefront of my mind. And there it was. To those of you who were upset upon seeing it, I apologize. I wasn't looking to upset you. I wasn't looking to upset anyone. And there you have it.
What about the spirit of curiosity, of discovery, of pioneer-ism? I don't believe that this spirit is the driving force of the space program. That is not to say that it is not some people's driving force - individuals who participate, or who follow along eagerly. But I don't believe, personally, that curiosity is the reason. And even if I did, I don't applaud "pioneer spirit" - to me, pioneer spirit devastated the Native Americans, pioneer spirit brings the US military into other countries who aren't doing things "the American way," pioneer spirit has depleted the environment. What gives us the right to feel as if everything was created for us? What gives us the right to believe that we should know the answer to every mystery? What gives us the right to feel that every speck of space was meant for our footsteps?![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
chaptal says, "Once the poles were arrived at, the big mountains climbed, the forests logged, and indigenous peoples enslaved or exterminated, there was nowhere to go but up." I couldn't have said it any better myself.
That said, I think the comments left byjjustj were beautiful, and out of all of them, made me think the most. They captured the spirit of childlike wonderment, the dreams of a better future, and I can't possibly argue with that. I was a child. I wanted to go to Space Camp. I like to look up at the amazingness above. The image of Russian and American people shaking hands, in space or otherwise, in the heat of the Cold War is a beautiful one. The /idea/ of an International Space Station is lovely... but I still believe that we need to work on our international relations here on Earth before we attempt to do them in space. Is it really International, or just for a select group of nations? Are we going to shake hands with the people of Iraq in space? Or are we going to grumble here on earth when our gas goes up to $3 a gallon and we're bombing a bunch of people in retaliation for something we never got to finish? jjustj says, "I hope you might agree with me that the program gives hope to many of us that we CAN continue to grow and progress in compassion and love." I say this: I /always/ have hope that we can grow and progress in compassion and love. But we don't need to spend money to send people into space for that. We can spend money on people who need it to show compassion and love. We can stop blaming the underclass for all of its problems, and treat the people with compassion and love, with the dignity and respect they deserve as members of the human race, whether society sees them as "productive" or not. We can do that right here on the ground, but if all of our country's money is allocated (and we're spending money we don't even have!) already, how are we going to do that? The social services have been taking budget cuts like crazy - all across the board. Let's spread those cuts around.
The fuel that is used is environmentally sound and not limited I feel that the amount of exhaust that comes out of those things has to have consequences. And if that doesn't, I'm sure the "spare parts" or debris does.
There have been great gains in the names of science and technology. Of course there have. But as the title of my post says, I feel that these are small gains at a great cost. Not just the cost of lives yesterday, or years ago, but potential lives - and the environment. I can applaud the implantation of satellites when I use my cellular phone or my GPS - heck, half of my summer recreation involved the silly things. But do we really (and I mean most of us, I know some people do) /really/ care about most of those experiments as they're happening? The articles about the shuttle made sure to let us know that this mission involved several scientific experiments. But would we have even /heard/ about them if it hadn't exploded? Would we have even cared what they were doing up there if they'd made it back down?
The space program is a military program. I thought, ten years ago, that I could forget about the ridiculousness that is "Star Wars," but look, here we are doing it again. Can we honestly say that the bulk of the space program is /not/ about war? As a pacifist, someone opposed to war, I'm also opposed to programs that will be used for war. So there you have it. And is it no longer a dicksizing competition? Sure, we don't use the term "Space Race" anymore, but why not? Because, asvorpalbla stated, No one is competing against the U.S. for "biggest space dick" these days. It's not a competition anymore because we rubbed out the competition. If an Israeli wants to go into space, s/he rides an American shuttle. It's the American Program. It's NASA. So once again, the US has proven itself victorious. Whoopee.
And it /is/ a huge expenditure of money. Something that costs /that/ much should benefit an enormous population of people. Does it? No. The space program benefits the wealthy, and is only spottily absorbed by the middle class. The privileged of us, with our cell phones, our GPSs, our internet where we can download pretty pictures taken by telescopes - that's marginal. There are masses of people - people in poverty here, and most of the world - who don't take advantage of the space program in any way... except that maybe someday we might use it to blow some of them up from the sky. And no,naughtypixie, they probably wouldn't use the money for something that would make me happy. But do I have to accept "the lesser of two evils"? Should I be satisfied with crumbs when I could have a whole loaf of bread? In my perfect world, the money /would/ go to the betterment of our world and its people. And if I just accept that the money is spent on the space program instead of a weapons program (but isn't it, at least in some ways, /already/ a weapons program?), how am I making a difference?
And why are they heroes? Why are we so quick to call someone a hero? These were people doing a job. They had a risky job, sure, but that was their choice. A whole slew of people recently got buried in a coal mine in rural Pennsylvania. Are they heroes? Life would sure suck without coal.
I can't, personally, back a program that expends so much money and benefits so few. I can't, personally, back a program that is linked to war. Like I said, sometimes you just have to choose a side. And I have. If my opinion poses a problem for you, eh. That's what having your own opinion is for.
Oh, andqaphsiel, don't even get me started on the Department of Defense. Please don't assume that I can only think one thing is wasteful. Besides, a good portion of those defense dollars just might be used in space.
It sure is beautiful today. Anyone doing anything outside?
Why did you post this now? Isn't this terribly insensitive? I believe I alluded to this in the post itself. I don't think it's insensitive. I did acknowledge sadness for the individuals and their families. Is it poor timing? I'm still not sure. I mean, it's not like I have never had these thoughts before, but I /do/ manage to think about other things. The events of yesterday just brought it to the forefront of my mind. And there it was. To those of you who were upset upon seeing it, I apologize. I wasn't looking to upset you. I wasn't looking to upset anyone. And there you have it.
What about the spirit of curiosity, of discovery, of pioneer-ism? I don't believe that this spirit is the driving force of the space program. That is not to say that it is not some people's driving force - individuals who participate, or who follow along eagerly. But I don't believe, personally, that curiosity is the reason. And even if I did, I don't applaud "pioneer spirit" - to me, pioneer spirit devastated the Native Americans, pioneer spirit brings the US military into other countries who aren't doing things "the American way," pioneer spirit has depleted the environment. What gives us the right to feel as if everything was created for us? What gives us the right to believe that we should know the answer to every mystery? What gives us the right to feel that every speck of space was meant for our footsteps?
chaptal says, "Once the poles were arrived at, the big mountains climbed, the forests logged, and indigenous peoples enslaved or exterminated, there was nowhere to go but up." I couldn't have said it any better myself.That said, I think the comments left by
jjustj were beautiful, and out of all of them, made me think the most. They captured the spirit of childlike wonderment, the dreams of a better future, and I can't possibly argue with that. I was a child. I wanted to go to Space Camp. I like to look up at the amazingness above. The image of Russian and American people shaking hands, in space or otherwise, in the heat of the Cold War is a beautiful one. The /idea/ of an International Space Station is lovely... but I still believe that we need to work on our international relations here on Earth before we attempt to do them in space. Is it really International, or just for a select group of nations? Are we going to shake hands with the people of Iraq in space? Or are we going to grumble here on earth when our gas goes up to $3 a gallon and we're bombing a bunch of people in retaliation for something we never got to finish? jjustj says, "I hope you might agree with me that the program gives hope to many of us that we CAN continue to grow and progress in compassion and love." I say this: I /always/ have hope that we can grow and progress in compassion and love. But we don't need to spend money to send people into space for that. We can spend money on people who need it to show compassion and love. We can stop blaming the underclass for all of its problems, and treat the people with compassion and love, with the dignity and respect they deserve as members of the human race, whether society sees them as "productive" or not. We can do that right here on the ground, but if all of our country's money is allocated (and we're spending money we don't even have!) already, how are we going to do that? The social services have been taking budget cuts like crazy - all across the board. Let's spread those cuts around.The fuel that is used is environmentally sound and not limited I feel that the amount of exhaust that comes out of those things has to have consequences. And if that doesn't, I'm sure the "spare parts" or debris does.
There have been great gains in the names of science and technology. Of course there have. But as the title of my post says, I feel that these are small gains at a great cost. Not just the cost of lives yesterday, or years ago, but potential lives - and the environment. I can applaud the implantation of satellites when I use my cellular phone or my GPS - heck, half of my summer recreation involved the silly things. But do we really (and I mean most of us, I know some people do) /really/ care about most of those experiments as they're happening? The articles about the shuttle made sure to let us know that this mission involved several scientific experiments. But would we have even /heard/ about them if it hadn't exploded? Would we have even cared what they were doing up there if they'd made it back down?
The space program is a military program. I thought, ten years ago, that I could forget about the ridiculousness that is "Star Wars," but look, here we are doing it again. Can we honestly say that the bulk of the space program is /not/ about war? As a pacifist, someone opposed to war, I'm also opposed to programs that will be used for war. So there you have it. And is it no longer a dicksizing competition? Sure, we don't use the term "Space Race" anymore, but why not? Because, as
vorpalbla stated, No one is competing against the U.S. for "biggest space dick" these days. It's not a competition anymore because we rubbed out the competition. If an Israeli wants to go into space, s/he rides an American shuttle. It's the American Program. It's NASA. So once again, the US has proven itself victorious. Whoopee.And it /is/ a huge expenditure of money. Something that costs /that/ much should benefit an enormous population of people. Does it? No. The space program benefits the wealthy, and is only spottily absorbed by the middle class. The privileged of us, with our cell phones, our GPSs, our internet where we can download pretty pictures taken by telescopes - that's marginal. There are masses of people - people in poverty here, and most of the world - who don't take advantage of the space program in any way... except that maybe someday we might use it to blow some of them up from the sky. And no,
naughtypixie, they probably wouldn't use the money for something that would make me happy. But do I have to accept "the lesser of two evils"? Should I be satisfied with crumbs when I could have a whole loaf of bread? In my perfect world, the money /would/ go to the betterment of our world and its people. And if I just accept that the money is spent on the space program instead of a weapons program (but isn't it, at least in some ways, /already/ a weapons program?), how am I making a difference?And why are they heroes? Why are we so quick to call someone a hero? These were people doing a job. They had a risky job, sure, but that was their choice. A whole slew of people recently got buried in a coal mine in rural Pennsylvania. Are they heroes? Life would sure suck without coal.
I can't, personally, back a program that expends so much money and benefits so few. I can't, personally, back a program that is linked to war. Like I said, sometimes you just have to choose a side. And I have. If my opinion poses a problem for you, eh. That's what having your own opinion is for.
Oh, and
qaphsiel, don't even get me started on the Department of Defense. Please don't assume that I can only think one thing is wasteful. Besides, a good portion of those defense dollars just might be used in space.It sure is beautiful today. Anyone doing anything outside?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-02-02 11:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-02-03 07:32 am (UTC)no subject
Or maybe you do.
I'm serious. And the respect is quite mutual.
Something tells me that we could sit down together and talk about anything, and disagree about everything, and still walk away from the conversation both with a friendship intact, and even GLAD that we shared it! :)
no subject
Well, that's pretty much my goal, so I hope so. :) I likes you lotses.
Re:
Date: 2003-02-03 07:48 am (UTC)Meep! :)
Note to self: file for future reference under "how to ruin a perfectly good conversation." ;)
no subject
Date: 2003-02-03 07:53 am (UTC)Re:
Date: 2003-02-03 08:16 am (UTC):p
no subject
Date: 2003-02-03 08:28 am (UTC)Re:
Date: 2003-02-03 10:53 am (UTC)Maybe I'll paint you and then mount you.
...as a stained-glass window.
no subject
Date: 2003-02-03 09:20 pm (UTC)I think this is what Live Journal is for...
Date: 2003-02-02 01:11 pm (UTC)Re: I think this is what Live Journal is for...
Date: 2003-02-03 07:34 am (UTC)But yes, the great thing about keeping tabs on so many people is that there are so many different opportunities to learn!
p.s. I hope you're feeling better.
Re: I think this is what Live Journal is for...
Date: 2003-02-03 10:58 am (UTC)And thanks for your good wishes...I am sure I will feel better soon, unless I really do have a Martian Death Virus.
no subject
Date: 2003-02-02 01:13 pm (UTC)I got to toss out the remnants of a mourning dove that one of the cats left next to my back porch. At least I think it was a mourning dove. Could have been a pigeon.
Homeownership is so wonderful :)
You've said a lot here. Some of which I agree with, some I do not. All of your opinions are respected.
no subject
no subject
Date: 2003-02-02 01:22 pm (UTC)You should join me.
no subject
Date: 2003-02-03 07:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-02-02 02:11 pm (UTC)Personally I try to piss people off in my posts.
no subject
Date: 2003-02-03 07:36 am (UTC)"pissing you off" is one of my LJ interests. I actually added it when I posted something about sexism about a year ago and people went totally off on me and called me a man-hater.
Rawk!
no subject
Hello kiddies. I'm a girl in Ohio, and I'm probably one of the most politically incorrect people you'll ever read. A lot of the things I say here will probably either offend you, or just generally piss you off. Well just so you know, I try.
Tee hee.
no subject
"It sure is beautiful today. Anyone doing anything outside?"
Date: 2003-02-02 02:36 pm (UTC)Re: "It sure is beautiful today. Anyone doing anything outside?"
Date: 2003-02-03 07:37 am (UTC)Re: "It sure is beautiful today. Anyone doing anything outside?"
Date: 2003-02-03 08:41 am (UTC)Unfortunately, I guess you can't bike to work since you have to be able to drive around. Last fall, a couple clients were dumbstruck to see me getting off my bike on Long St. They thought I must not own a car.
Re: "It sure is beautiful today. Anyone doing anything outside?"
Date: 2003-02-03 08:55 am (UTC)But yeah, it's only about a mile and a half away. Easily do-able. :)
I like to rollerblade the Olentangy Bike Path.
biking to work
Date: 2003-02-03 06:35 pm (UTC)The other question is, how do you feel about biking through the ghetto after dark? Last fall, when biking home at night, I detoured a bit in order to take High St. instead of 4th.
Re: biking to work
Date: 2003-02-03 09:19 pm (UTC)So that's not much of an issue except in the winter. :)
no subject
Date: 2003-02-03 05:37 am (UTC)I'm willing to concede that the firemen and rescue workers who ran /into/ the World Trade Center and brought people out alive are heroes. I'm not willing to say that an office worker who didn't make it out is a hero ... their deaths were /tragic/, but not heroic. *shrug* Just my $0.02.
Heroes.
Date: 2003-02-03 07:41 am (UTC)The problem is that people "in charge" of our nation seem to have free reign over who is a "national hero." I would agree that service workers who risked their lives in the Trade Centers were heroic - but does that make every firefighter and police officer a hero as a result? I know a lot of police officers who sure don't deserve that recognition.
Are these people heroes because they were astronauts, or because they died? That's what I'm wondering. Because last year, a social worker here was murdered by a client during a home visit, and though it was in the paper, no one called her a hero. But some social workers risk their lives every day. But what happens? Something like that happens in a bad neighborhood, and instead of saying, "Wow, it's so great how she risked her live for her fellow humans," they say, "I told her she shouldn't be doing that job - it's too dangerous."
Bleh. We all have the potential to be heroes, regardless of occupation.