Blah blah house buying blah blah commitment

[judecorp]

I've doing a lot of thinking about houses. Basically, the big question is, do I want to own one?

The big trend in my life has been to favor apartment living because I am, by nature, a rather transient individual. In my life I've had the opportunity to pack and move with reckless abandon, and I've been privileged to live in a number of cool places (NM, GA, MA, OH) and some not-so-cool ones (ME). I've also been pretty free with relationships as well - when I was in them, there was always an "out" on the horizon, always the need for a safety net in case something didn't work out. Even when I was married, the relationship wasn't stable. I didn't want to make large purchases with him, nor did I want to establish roots. We had a semi-open relationship because I wasn't willing to give certain things up. (Of course, those "things" involved sleeping with women, but still...)

It's hard to deny the practical applications of homeownership, though - from tax deductions to just the wisdom of paying money to something you own rather than something someone else owns. And it would eliminate the idiocy that is "pet rent." And I could paint the walls any old way my little heart desired! These are all exciting things. So for the last month or so, I've been tossing around the idea of houses. It started as I was watching 356dreamer set up his new house - choosing colors and schemes and things. It seemed like fun!

Last night when I was on the phone with my smurfbrother, it just made me crazy about houses all over again. Jennifer and I have been talking futureward about houses and moving and all of that, but now I want a house now! Last night I was like, "I think when my lease runs out, I want to try to see if I can get a house." But then we got into a discussion about it...

She says that she wouldn't feel comfortable moving into a house if it was my house, not ours. So if I bought a house and we weren't living together, she wouldn't want to live with me, because it would be my house. But my lease runs out in July, and hers in October, and that's soon (to me) to be thinking about something so serious as not just living together, but purchasing a home together. I've always felt that since I never want to get married again (and since I can't, legally), house-buying would be my symbol to people that this was a serious commitment, a commitment on paper, a commitment with something to show for it. And while what we have is special and wonderful and seems, right now, to be the kind of thing I want to carry into the distant future, I worry that 2003 is too soon.

So now I'm in this dilemma... do I continue to think about the possibility of buying a place of my own? Do I rent for another year and see where this goes? Do I throw caution to the wind and make things work - if I want them to, why not start now? I was telling her last night that there's little more humbling than profession a life and a commitment with someone in front of hundreds of people, some of whom that are close to you and some that are family acquaintances, and then having to retract that statement, over and over and over, every time you see one of them. Whenever I visit my hometown, it seems like a rehash of my stupid decision in 1999. I sure don't want to do that again.

Sometimes I hate being a Libra. At least I have months and months to process this to death.

Comments

Re: Doh! Scandal!

[iansha.livejournal.com]

one of those, you've been dating for so long, you're "supposed" to get married
Must be a theme.

Re: Doh! Scandal!

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Ugh.

[juliann.livejournal.com]

Why not buy and then sell her half of it if/when she moves in?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

That's like the exact opposite of how she was teasing me last night. She was like, "Well, if you dump me you can buy me out." =P

I'd have to see if I could even afford to buy a house by myself on my salary. Maybe I should look into that before I work myself into a tizzy.

That's a very logical suggestion. But I wonder if she would feel like it still wasn't "hers" because we didn't move into it together. I suppose I'd have to ask.

[juliann.livejournal.com]

You also could buy, then sell and buy a new one with her later.

[mayna.livejournal.com]

The problem with buying and then selling relatively soon is you won't make your money back on it. If you buy something for say, $100,000, and you pay 6% to a realtor, that's $6000 right there, not to mention closing costs. So buying for the short term, unless you can do a lot of cheap fix ups and sell at a profit, isn't really a good investment.

You could buy a condo so it technically is yours, but move in together so it feels like both of yours.

The interest in a house is tax deductible, but think of it this way... you pay in $1000/mo in interest (pretend). You get back like 15%-28% of it (depending on your tax bracket). But if you could've taken that $1000 and put it in a savings account, you'd still have that $1000 and not have spent $700 of it in "lost money" (interest). It's easier to save money for a house by renting in something cheaper, I think. We did a lot better by living in a (relatively) cheap apartment for awhile and saving a bunch of money to put as a down payment on a house. If you put down 20%, you get out of paying PMI (which can be $50-$100/mo which is NOT tax deductible).

Just some food for thought.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I've got a downpayment already. I've been sitting on it for quite some time. That's why this is sort of an issue now, more than just, "Hey, I think I want a house."

But I certainly am filing your information away, since you've already done it. Perhaps renting together is a smarter thing on all accounts... it's just that it's so hard to find a place that will rent to multiple pets. Ugh.

[mayna.livejournal.com]

Well in Victorian Village maybe... we rented a townhouse from a place that lets you have 2 pets (but we had 3 cats the whole time and then added a dog for the last month. :-)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

When I moved here with the ex, we had a hard time finding an apartment complex that would allow 3 cats. I suppose we could have said 2, but I'm not a very good liar and I don't like to lie.

And if you've ever met my monsters, you know that they're so friendly that they would bumrush the landlord, and then I'd be screwed.

[mayna.livejournal.com]

Ours are too, but the maintenance people never cared what we had, and they were the only people who ever went in our apartment.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

When I had the big flood last summer, both of my landlords were in this apartment. And there were the cats. Oops.

They never asked, though. (I was only supposed to have one.)

[00solstice.livejournal.com]

you pay in $1000/mo in interest (pretend). You get back like 15%-28% of it (depending on your tax bracket). But if you could've taken that $1000 and put it in a savings account

Minus the money she would have to pay in rent, of course. And if buys something around $100K, as you suggested in the first paragraph, interest will be much closer to $500/mo, not $1000. And she can still put 28% of that money into savings, and do it immediatly by increasing the number of exemptions on her employer's W4, giving her more money in her pocket every paycheck. Interest isn't "lost money," it's a necessity when it comes to buying a home... unless one is an heiress to a rubber tree planation or just co-wrote the latest Britney Spears top 40 single. PMI truly sucks. But what's the alternative? Saving $20,000 isn't exactly easy in this economy, and mortgage rates are almost certain to go up over the next five years, not down, easily adding the $50 or $100 back to her monthly payment, negating any savings incurred by avoiding PMI.

No doubt about, it's better to buy a home in a down economy than in a strong one. Buy a home now, and plan on starting an aggressive investment strategy within 3 years. Just my 2 cents.

[mayna.livejournal.com]

You forget about all the stuff you have to buy for a house. Window dressings, paint/wallpaper, plumber/fixit person, lawnmower, perennials/annuals, etc. You don't have all that with an apartment.
I think only $100-$150 of our payment goes towards the principal each month. We put down about $37k on our house, most of it saved by living extremely frugally and in a relatively cheap apartment... in the down economy and with me losing my job. We've been having a lot more trouble saving now that we have the house. Granted, Jude neither has 2 incomes nor makes anywhere near what Bill does, but houses are money sucks, just because you look around and say "I want to do this, or that" to the house, you need things you didn't need in an apartment, or something breaks that you have to pay to fix.

Unless you plan on living there a long time OR you are buying into a place that's going to increase in value significantly... even with the low interest rates, it's good to wait. When the interest rates go up, the prices of housing will go down (or no one will be able to sell their properties. Why do you think the home values have skyrocketed recently?).

Bill's old house, he lived in 3 years and had a roommate paying him rent. After paying for the new siding (carpenter ants), new carpet (cat/rabbit damage), new furnace (I think it was the furnace... it was $2500 at any rate), new deck (the old one was rotted away), AND selling it FSBO... in Dublin where the property values were skyrocketing... he came away even... selling it for his purchase price plus the $ he put into improvements. Doesn't include any of the payments he made every month, that was like "rent".

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

But wouldn't I lose a asston of money if I tried to sell relatively soon?

[rebasayre.livejournal.com]

call me!!!!! i won't push you to buy one of my homes for sure, but i certainly can tell you in 3-5 minutes how much of a monthly payment you qualify for and how much of a house that is. i don't even have to pull your credit. if you are interested i can also show you a calculation that compares renting to buying that may help in your decision making process. let me help! it makes me feel worthwhile! :)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Maybe I can come over sometime and we can, you know, talk? I don't really do a lot of chatting on the phone, and I'm so busybusybusy at work during the day time.

[rebasayre.livejournal.com]

that is fine! i understand! i also want to let you know what i found out today. if we go to war, they are predicting that the interest rate will sky rocket, 3-5 points in ONE DAY. they are basing this on what happened on the first day of the Gulf War in the 90's. if we don't go to war, the feds are meeting next week anyhoo, and supposedly the rates are going to be going up, but at a slower rate. i know you can't buy right now, but i just wanted you to know that what people qualify for today and what they qualify for down the road will differ by thousands of dollars. just fyi till we can talk. i'm at work till 8 if you guys want to come see me one night!

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

We'll have to make plans to get together, whether we talk about houses or not. I miss you!!! :)

p.s. That sucks about the whole war thing.

[rebasayre.livejournal.com]

oh yeah. my number at work 866-876-9900. toll free

[siercia]

If you really want to own now, how about looking into a condo, something that you could either turn over quickly, or potentially rent for a few years? It would be less money than a house, and so would possibly be easier to swing on just your salary. And if you're not ready to move in together in Oct. 2003, if you are in 2004, you'll have at least a year of equity in, and you'd probably be able to come out of it at least even, if not slightly ahead. I've said it before, the dumbest thing Wiley and I did was not buying property as soon as we got married, if not before, so I'm a big one for buying as soon as possible.

Or, alternatively, can you and Jen see if after your year of renting, you can get tenant-at-will renewals? Then you could not worry about your leases being out of sync, and you could move whenever you wanted to.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure her lease goes month-to-month when her lease is up. I'm not sure about mine. It just wasn't an issue when I first signed up, you know?

And this probably sounds totally snotty and whiny, but I hate condos. So even though it might be a smart thing, I just don't want to live in one. They're like living in a big icky apartment complex. Yucko!

I guess I have a lot to think about.

[siercia]

You may want to check the actual condo market in your area. There's lots of multi-family houses around here that have gone condo - so you're not living in a development, but a single house.

In general, though, I agree with you about condos - it's one of the reasons we didn't buy before getting the house. With what the market in Boston did for those years, it was a sad mistake.

Obviously, there's lots to think about and consider. I'm sure you and Jen can work something out that you'll both be happy with, and that lets you do what you want =)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

We have some developments that do "condo living" but with single-family homes. They're all in those weird developments, though... you know, the ones that look like The Truman Show. My friend Steve lives in one.

I'm sure you and Jen can work something out that you'll both be happy with, and that lets you do what you want =)

I'll probably stick it out in the rental market through my tenure in Columbus, and maybe a cute girl can be convinced to rent with me... test the waters or something. And then, if/when we move out of state together... :)

[laserkitty.livejournal.com]

If you do think about buying, check with Reba. She was so very helpful to Eric.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Totally. I love my Reba!

[communista.livejournal.com]

I agree with the condo thing. One of my friends and her girlie got a condo, and after a few years rented it out for almost double what they paid for it monthly.

I'd love a house. But with my career field being so unstable right now, I don't think it'd be a good idea.

And you hate being a Libra? How about being a Virgo-Libra cusp...I'm indecisive and I'm nitpicky.

[lemur68.livejournal.com]

I hear you on that one (September 17).

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I hate condos. They inherently annoy me.

It may be a smart idea, but I just don't like them. Like guacamole. I've never tried it, but I've convinced myself that I hate it.

I'm difficult like that.

[happy2beso.livejournal.com]

Just don't buy a new house. Buy something with lots of character in a neighborhood, not a development with roads that end in little circles.

Just my opinion. :)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Oh my goodness, yes. No doubt.

[jeffholton.livejournal.com]

Gaagh!

Are ye nuts??!?

Buy a house! Even if you don't live in it! OWN PROPERTY!!

I'm not talking about being a consuming capitalist imperialist pig scum. I'm talking about using your money wisely.

I'm one of those who doesn't like ostentation either, but my wife (who is quite justified to say so, and whom I would NOT characterize as "greedy") is fond of pointint out to me that "the more you have, the more people you can help."

I like that attitude.

Anyway, when you rent, you're just throwing your money away in support of a landowner who's making a fortune off of you. When you own, your value is increasing (most of the time) even if you sit there and do nothing. Last year we made--in property increase--a value almost equal to my annual salary! (No, I didn't expect it to go that much.) Now, granted, we'll never realize most of that amount until we divest of the property, but the money's there on paper at least.

Also, if you like America, well, enjoy it. And if you DON'T like the system, heck, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT AND SQUEEZE IT DRY!!! ;)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Very good points. I thank you for your advice.

I have a lot to think about.

[chaptal.livejournal.com]

It is a *huge* commitment. If you're serious start saving up for a down payment now. I agree with buying an older house in an established neighborhood, instead of a cookie cutter development with no place within walking distance.

Do you two want to live togethor first for a bit? Again: home buying is a big step for anyone, bigger for a couple.

Big decision, but as you say, there's time to obsess over it :)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

So many things to think about. So many options. So many decisions. Decisions are not my forte.

I'm really just babbling with my fingers most of the time here. Yes, I think we should live together first before purchasing a house together. But yes, it will be hard to rent with three animals.

Argh. Reality.

[lemur68.livejournal.com]

But yes, it will be hard to rent with three animals.

teh kitie lofe wil adotp all kities from yuo!!`1

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

KITIE LOFE WANNA EET MI KITIES NOTHANKYOOBYE!

Re:

[chaptal.livejournal.com]

Renting with three animals is tough, in certain parts of town. Grandview is usually right out, for instance.

I forget who the realtor is in this thread, but just to sit down with her and to see what you can afford is a very good place to start. You can then start looking with that price range in mind. It does not hurt to look at all.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

The realtor is rebacrwfrd and she is the bee's knees.

I hate landlords who don't allow lots of pets. I mean, 2 cats is just like 1 cat! :)

[geniusorafool.livejournal.com]

Oh my goodness! I think about this *all* the time! I actually called my father after midnight one night to talk about house-buying strategies! It's crazy, isn't it?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

We're getting old.

house buying

[vorpalbla.livejournal.com]

I have played around with the idea of buying a home in a couple of years. But I'm very iffy about it because of the way you get bolted down to a location.

For instance, as much as a like my apartment, suppose at some point I get a job on the far east side or far west side of town. Once my lease is out, I would then want to move over to that area so as to have a short trip to work. As I learned by hauling out to Marysville and back several times a week, I HATE long commutes.

When you buy a house, you're stuck. However far away you work, you get stuck driving that far every day. Also, when I think of the areas I often find myself hanging out--OSU campus area, Clintonville, Short North/VV, etc.--either I wouldn't want to own in those areas, or probably couldn't afford to.

I'd have to be making a lot more $ than I am now, and have a job I expect to be at for a damn long time.

Re: house buying

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

You are absolutely right on this point: I'd have to be making a lot more $ than I am now, and have a job I expect to be at for a damn long time. Sometimes I get frustrated that I will never do anything like buy a house, because I'll never make money and I don't know if I'll ever NOT be transient. It just seems so stupid to rent.

But no, I don't expect to be at this job forever, and I don't even play to be in this STATE past two more years, so it's probably a foolish idea, especially since it caused some minor drama on the relationship front. WHEE! :)