A question

[judecorp]

(I probably should have done this sooner, like when we filled out the paperwork for our marriage license, but...)

I've been tossing around the idea of taking Jennifer's last name.

Thoughts?

Comments

hmm

[supergoat.livejournal.com]

Depends on the last name. :)

Re: hmm

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

It's not one I particularly like for myself, actually. It's an Anglicized name that is originally German (I think) and ends in MAN (which, really, HELLO?) =P

[lemur68.livejournal.com]

Hm...well aside from my crackpot belief that no one should have to change their name when they get married, I just don't hear "Jude [Jen's last name]" rolling off the tongue. 'sides, I like your surname just fine.

Well you asked. :)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I agree that no one should have to change their names, but I don't see anything wrong with it being an option for people who want to. It all goes back to what we want to name our kids, which right now is a big Question Mark. I mean, if our kids get her last name, kids will probably call me "Mrs. So-and-so" anyway because that's what society tells them. And if we hyphenate our kids' names, well heck, you know what kind of alphabet soup that would be. ;)

[volumeat11.livejournal.com]

...it would make life more difficult on the great state of Rhode Island, if you decide to officially move there...

...so I say go for it!

('Sides...you'll always be The Jude, even if your last name were Peeniewhacker.)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I sure don't want my last name to be Peeniewhacker! But maybe if it was spelled 'Puisafjkbvuasa' but pronounced 'Peeniewhacker,' because that would be funny.

It's actually the idea of moving to RI (or another non-MA state) that is starting to push me to go along with Jen wanting to have the same last name, since we wouldn't be /legally/ married and would thus want another way to permanently identify us as a family.

[haloumi.livejournal.com]

This is one of those things that is completely up to you.

If you want to take Jennifer's last name then go ahead and do it. There are no reasons that are really any better for doing it or not doing it - it's an emotional thing rather than a logical thing.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Well... yes and no.

There's the fact that we're only legally married in one state and might not live in that state forever, and having the same legal name would be one sort of bond that would carry over with us wherever we lived, linking us as family.

And there's the issue of what to name the child/ren. I don't know if that's sentimental or emotional, but it is a logistical nightmare. If we have separate names, do we alternate last names? Hyphenate the kids' names and not ours? Pick one last name and hope the other one doesn't feel left out? Etc.

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

Is it important to you? Is it important to her?

I don't know if I think the names sound well together, but if you felt very strongly about it, that would overcome it. Would you be keeping your current surname as a middle or keeping your original middle? I note that the initial would not change.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

It's complicated.

She wants us to have the same last name, and really wanted to hyphenate which (as you can imagine) I think would be too. damned. long. Not to mention cumbersome.

I don't really care if we have the same last name but it definitely does make it easier to decide which last name to give to children if we have the same one. Otherwise we have to make a decision then, and really, why postpone the inevitable?

I don't need us to have the same last name at all. I like my name, she wants to keep her name, great great. But I /do/ often wonder what we'll do about kids.

[grrlpower.livejournal.com]

...and who will get to open the mail addressed to "Mrs. J. XXXXXX"? Honestly, I think it would become more difficult logistically, but if it is important to you from a sentimental standpoint, I'm sure it can be overcome. I just know it was enough of a hassle with my mother and I both having the same first initial..

[skreeky]

Oh, I simply adore the logistical nightmare, myself. They already have one, really. For example, Jane Smith marries John Doe. Even if she does not change her name to Jane Doe, Jane Smith is still Mrs. John Doe. Technically, there is no such person as Mrs. Jane Smith, because Mrs. roughtly translates to "wife of"... however, if mail were to arrive for "Mrs. Jane Smith" she could infer who it was for.

But.

If Jane Smith marries Janet Doe, letters addressed to "Mrs. Jane Smith" are technically addressed to Janet. Try explaining that while you're filling out some official form with little check boxes, for starters. And you'll never be entirely sure again who "Mrs." mail is for, since most people don't know the proper usage.

Gosh, these gays are just making a mess of things. What is our paternalistic society coming to. This nomenclature obsoletion must be what all those bigots were afraid of when they were going on about their het marriages being ruined. :)

I simply adore the whole beautiful mess. I do love formal titles and I do love going by "Mrs. Him" socially while still being "Ms. Her" legally/professionally, but my not-so-inner feminist wants hubby to have an equivalent - not possible while there is no differentiation in whether "Mr." is married or not, of course. (As a side note, I find it particularly sad that male couples have no proper married title at all.) It brings the question to the fore rather nicely.

Unfortunately, while the fair solution is to get rid of the gender associations of "Mr." and "Mrs.", the solution that's already pretty much settled in is to give up entirely on the correct usage of "Mrs." and for Janet to answer to "Mrs. Janet" and Jane to answer to "Mrs. Jane."

Fascinating.

The last name change and same first initial just adds to the wonderful chaos!

[biophile6.livejournal.com]

You should!

Kozlovski-Mannheimsteamrollerderby is such a great one to have.

Uh. Also.

Yeah.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Snap, I wish that was my name.

[michael622.livejournal.com]

Have you guys considered somehow combining both of your last names into a new last name that you both can share? :) I don't know Jennifer's last name, so I don't know if it's even possible, but it's an idea ...

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

We've talked about it, and I've even casually brought a couple of options up. In a lot of ways I don't like that idea because there's no history to it. My name has never been changed/americanized and Jen's has, but both have, you know, other people with the name. Starting up with a brand new name seems awfully confusing from a geneology standpoint. I dunno.

(And all the combos sound weird.)

[folkyboy.livejournal.com]

i prefer your last name, yo. but i could still see it working out

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Well, technically I prefer my last name, too.

[estrange.livejournal.com]

I think this is up to you & Jen to decide.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Well, of course it is. But there's nothing wrong with fishing for opinions!

[saldemonium.livejournal.com]

If that's what you both want, then go for it! =) Barb is taking my name, once we tie the knot. ;)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Well, we haven't been able to come up with any other acceptible ideas, that's the problem. We want to have the same last name so that when we have children, we all have the same name. Hyphenating would be ideal except that we both have pretty long names, in letters and in syllables, so it's a big, long mouthful. Jennifer is totally willing to go that route but I think it would just plain be too awkward for kids.

I like my name quite a bit, I'm quite attached to it and like the sound of it... but Jen's really set on having her last name since she's her dad's only child and [insert long story here].

I feel like if it's so important for us to have the same name I have to be willing to bite the bullet and do it. I dunno.

[livinginfits.livejournal.com]

frankly, i think you should just drop your last name... or go with corp. or rules.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Umm, I can't really be Mrs. Rules since, well, you never married me. YOU LOST YOUR CHANCE, YOU SILLY DOODIEHEAD!

However, I am partial to the name "Corp." Which, of course, is why it's my name.

[thatpatti.livejournal.com]

yes, only you should add a "WO" before the M. :P

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Ha ha, I say that all the time!!

[carina-s.livejournal.com]

I always thought Jennifer would take yours. I don't know why.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I think that would be lovely... but I couldn't ask her to do that. I mean, if she wanted to, sure. But it would have to be her choice.

[kaasirpent]

There are so many options. I know people who've done every conceivable combination, including hyphenating, keeping the maiden name professionally but using the married one socially, both changing to something completely different, and both parties keeping their original names.

And don't fret about the germanic name ending in '-man' too much. I knew a girl in high school named Gina Dykeman. Honest. I'll let you make your own punchline.

Personally, I think whatever feels right for both of you IS right.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

The whole 'man' thing is kind of a joke. Kind of. (It's actually the whole name together that kind of bugs me, I mean, she endured years of torment as a child for her name, whereas I got none.)

The problem is less about what we call ourselves (because hyphenated, switched, or separate, we're still cool) but more about what we will call our children. That seems to be a much more important discussion. And about whether we move out of state and out of legal familial status, and have a need to show our link in a more tangible way.

[siercia]

The kids thing was one of the big reasons I took Wiley's name. That and I didn't want to spend my whole life corrected people and being annoyed at people and blah blah blah.

Plus I was starting to use Jennifer more, especially working, and liked the sound of it better.

I remember being surprised when you took A's name the first time you got married. I also seem to remember you being very happy to shed it and reclaim your name at the end of things. Not to compare apples and oranges, of course, since they're two different marriages and all. But something else to consider perhaps?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I took A's name for the very same reason you say - kids. We were planning to have kids and I knew that people would call me 'Mrs. L' whether I kept my name or not. I actually used both names, Judith A L (always both, no hyphen), both socially and professionally.

And yes, I was glad to get my name back for a lot of reasons, one of which was that our marriage was over. If we'd actually had children before we broke up, I doubt I would have changed back. It's important to me to be linked to my kids that way, like I'm linked to my family.

[cathboblet.livejournal.com]

I think this is one of those intensely personal things, because there's no way to measure up the pros, cons, and investment each of you have in naming by anyone else's yardstick.

It's sort of fascinating to consider the ramifications of a family name in your situation, because your observation about being marked as family if you move out of Mass. is such a good one. I mean -- in my situation, I've said I'll never take my S.O.'s last name, because I hate the changed-name thing as a hangover from the old laws of domestic relations, a time when, upon marriage, a woman's legal status became subsumed within her husband's identity. I still reflexively dislike the changed name thing because of the primacy it places on being married, mitigating a woman's named relationship with the world by her status as married or not. I like the idea that a person is a person whose life experiences are all important, and whose identity is made up of many things, not just their family ties. (I mean, why are women most often the only ones to name change, you know?)

(Course this all gets messed up when you consider that somewhere along the line, all of use got given a male-line last name. But I guess the difference for me is that I've lived with my last name for X number of years, and made it my own by virtue of what I've lived).

BUT -- in your case, it's not a mark of ancient female-to-male legal and social submission. It follows the naming rites attached to that convention, but it's actually turning that whole institutional pattern on its head. Which is really kinda cool.

So -- in sum? This has been a collosal babble of no real use to anyone ;)

P.S. I don't think the hyphenated name is too unwieldy. I kinda like the way it sounds. And kids are adapatable, clever little monkeys -- they'll just accept it as what is.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

1. I'm sure kids will adapt... I just don't want them to be totally stigmatized or stressed out about having a ridiculously long name... I mean, kids are SO into names and love to say their whole names, and it's so much easier to be like, "Oh, what's your name?" "Emily Smith" instead of "Oh, what's your name?" "Sarah Breckenridge-Albertson" Can you imagine having to write that all out when you were learning to write??!?!

2. I've never had a problem with women taking their husbands' names after marriage. I mean, it's trading one man's name for another. What's the difference?

3. Personally, I think we should both switch to her mother's maiden name.

[eight.livejournal.com]

Drop all last names. You don't even really need one anyway, Jude ... And your children can have only first names, as well.

Lisa and I, although we definitely have more time to come to an agreement, have trouble deciding. I adamantly want to keep my name, but my name with her last name also sounds really really good. I wish I knew what Jennifer's last name was, so I'd have an idea of the sound it would make with Jude.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I swear, I should just legally change my last name to Corp. And heck, I never use my last name (even my legal signature on my license is just 'Jude'). Last names are so overrated.

Except, you know, to delineate family.

And yeah, Lisa's last name sounds good with your name. But 'Jennifer' is the kind of name that sounds good with just about anything.

[cranapril.livejournal.com]

There was no way I was going to hyphenate Hungarian-Italian...

But I wonder... if you hyphenate your last names... do you become JAG and Jen becomes JGA?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Nah, I think we would both be JAG... because it sounds much less flow-y the other way around.

(And I agree, your hyphenated name would be awkward... but you're still stuck with a name you have to spell for people!!)

[hopemcg.livejournal.com]

We are trying to decide this same thing. I can't decide which I feel more strongly about 1) our whole family having the same last name or 2) me keeping my last name. I *heart* my last name. Sometimes I think I would be able to give it up for all of us to have the same last name, but I don't want to not have a scots-irish name (megan's is german). I've considered all of us taking megan's mother's maiden name, which is irish and still starts with an M - although I would still pine for my Mc. Meg has thought about changing hers to mine, but I think she has gotten cold feet about it, which is totally reasonable. We could hyphenate, but that just passes the drama on to the next generation. *sigh* No easy answer.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

As I keep saying to Jen, "Okay, so what if we name our kid 'A-G' and then she ends up with someone with a hyphenated name... do they hyphenate the whole thing??!?!" I mean, really - totally ridiculous.

I just want to be linked with my kids. And while I don't want to change my name, I'm willing to do it to have the same name as my kids. Especially if I won't be biologically related to them. I want people to immediately think 'family' when they think of us, and I know that's muy challenging right now.

We should totally both take Jen's mother's maiden name. It's not an Anglicized German name that people make fun of, so that would be better for me. :) It's also a spanish name, which is a lot closer to mine ethnically which is nice.

[meglett.livejournal.com]

well, you know i've been thinking about the same stuff, for the same reasons as you, and truth is, i still haven't decided what i want to do. i really don't want to hyphenate either, because really, who needs to have a 6 syllable last name when it could be avoided? (and the names don't really have a great sound) i just think, my god, signing my name on everything i use my debit card for would use an incredible amount of time. shallow? i guess. but i try to think about the practical things. and i hardly ever use cash.

on the personal political level, the name change thing puts me in quite the pickle, but when i was a straight feminist, my perspective was a bit different. the same things weren't at stake with me having a different name than my children.

if your kids have only one of your names (and not a hyphenated one) the other mom will always be called Mrs. _____ by some people. as a teenager, i babysat for a family where mom kept her name, and the kids had dad's. mom would perpetually get called "Mrs. ____" vs. "Ms. her maiden name" by telemarketers (so what), by neighborhood kids, things sent home from school.....there was such an invisibility that the mom's name was different, which, as a 15 year old, made me insane.

so, my point is......i think i'm past the political implications of me changing my name. it's political in a different way, i feel. others have said this, but i think the other level is emotional. i'm not that emotionally attached to my last name (but i'm sure my paternal family will freak out if i do end up changing. not that they would if it was to a man's name, but-). but it is weird to start calling yourself something new. i feel like it will take a really long time to get used to that. the good news is that i really like hope's last name, and except that it gives me the initials "MMM," it sounds nice, too.

i feel somewhat overwhelmed by the paperwork process-not so much the legal stuff, but the various people you need to contact and all that.

so, i support you changing your name. and i understand why you want to keep your name. maybe a step to take is to make a pros/cons list for changing it. that way, you can see what you recognize as what you'd be "giving up" in the change. some of the "cons" are probably things you wouldn't mind or can certainly live with; focus on the ones that become your red flags. then the goal is to figure out whether you can deal with that on the long-term, or if the "pros" outweigh them.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

As someone who's been through it before, I will tell you that it DOES take a little while to get used to a new name, but it's not terribly major. I mean, you use your name so often. On the other hand, if you change your mind it is a HUGE pain in the butt to switch it all again. (I don't know how many times I called places to change my name when I got divorced and people were like, "Oh, did you get married? Congratulations!" and I could say, "Well, no, I got divorced." HA.

My biggest concern is that if I keep my name, and Jen has the babies, and she names them after her, then I'm, like, nothing. I would have no biological ties to our children and I would have a different name. I would feel like the weird step-parent or something. And I guess that can be averted by having a hyphenated name, but GAH - 6 syllables is right! Augh.

Personally, a name's a name, right? I love my name and I /do/ have attachment to it, as we're a pretty close family and our name hasn't been Americanized or whatever. But in the end... it's probably more important for me to at least have the same name as my kids, even if I don't share their genes.

[kumquat23.livejournal.com]

Have you thought about combining some elements of both of your last names to create a new one for everyone? I don't know what the last names are, so I don't know if that's an option but, I've heard of it being done before in situations like yours. (For example, I think I once heard that Melissa Etheridge's children born to her ex-wife, Julie Cypher became "Cypheridge" or something similar.)

If it would be possible at all, you could all take that last name and you'd definitely be one cohesive family unit while incorporating both original last names and having your own identity to pass on to your children.

I agree, hyphenating seems like a pain and it seems unfair to make a child go through school with that if it could be avoided.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Our names don't really combo all that well, and it's not really an option that appeals to us anyway, to make up a name. We want to pay homage to our families... that's part of the problem, both of us want to keep our families' names going.

We're also considering using her mother's maiden name, and making a new matrilinear tradition!

[jeffholton.livejournal.com]

Won't she be cold without it?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

You can warm her up.

[vorpalbla.livejournal.com]

You don't want to keep your spicy , uncommon, Latina-sounding surname?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I do. I love my name. I want to keep it, but I also want to find some sort of compromise that works.