So gay

[judecorp]

So I have this coworker, and I really like her. We talk a lot, and we goof a bit, and we have a good time together, and I value her opinions. She's a smart girl. But she does one thing that I. CAN'T. STAND.

She is always, ALWAYS, using "queer" as an insult. You know, like "He's so queer," or in true Boston fashion, "That's wicked queer." And I have stepped up and told her that I didn't like it, and she always says, "Oh, you know that's not what I meant" (as in, she doesn't mean anything in reference to queer people). And I tried to explain once that using a word that references a group of people as a replacement for 'stupid' is offensive, and that conversation didn't really go anywhere. And one day I had to make a conscious decision to let it roll off my back (she's not going to change) and so I told myself that perhaps when SHE was saying, "That's not how I meant it," she meant that she was using the /original/ meaning of the word queer, as in strange. Somehow that was more palatable to me.

Last night at Movie Club, though, she was talking about someone or other, maybe an old boss or a teacher or something like that (I forget, I was too hungry from our bad service), and she said, "He was being totally gay about it," and I didn't know what to do. I have /never/ heard her use the word 'gay' (only 'queer') like that. And it hurts so much more, because I can't even use the 'original meaning' excuse in her favor this time.

I didn't say anything to her because I didn't really want to chew her out in front of Movie Club, but I was really burned. It's not like she's a crazy homophobe or whatever, not by actions, just by language... I just don't know how to get through /years/ of her thinking this is okay. And it's been so long that I've had to speak to someone about why using "that's gay" et al is offensive that I am admittedly out of practice. Ugh.

I wish I didn't like her so much. It would be so much easier.

Comments

[ktmcda.livejournal.com]

I grew up with all these rednecks who called each other "queer" in place of stupid. Actually they said "queeah." They didn't use gay that way back then, not where I'm from. (Rural Maine.) Anyway, it wasn't until I went back to college in 2003 that I started hearing lots of people, presumably civilized people, using the term "gay" as an insult.
It seems like regression. It really fing bothers me. I think the worst part is that I'd expect that from some hillbilly. But not from a woman in a suit at the university. And not from a classmate next to me in an upper level policy class.

I just handle it by having a shocked look on my face and saying "what did you say?!" It usually makes them feel like an asshole. Which they are.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you really need to confront her about it. Let her know that it really bothers you a lot. I would say that when she's around other people she can say whatever the fuck she wants, but you're asking her to not say those things around you. I wouldn't try and argue with her - if she argues just stand your ground. Honestly, no matter how cool she is if she won't stop I wouldn't hang out with her anymore. Someone disrespecting you like that and not willing to change is not worth my time.

whoops, sorry

[lunamoonwmn01.livejournal.com]

Didn't realize I got logged out!

[dollraves.livejournal.com]

How old is she? I've found that people in their 20s really do use queer/gay like that and don't get the association with the homosexual community. It's... disturbing.

It seems she doesn't think enough of you to filter out something that offends you, whether she understands why it does nor not. Chalk it up to emotional immaturity and a general insensitivity to friends.

[prettyvacantone.livejournal.com]

I had a similar thing happen to me with an old coworker. She called EVERYTHING queer. And I got on her case about it, because it bothers the hell out of me, and she used the same "Oh I just meant it like 'strange' excuse." No matter how much I told her it bothered me, she wouldn't stop. The sad part is, one day I called her on it in front of most of the office (and remember these are all supposed hardcore liberal, Bush-hating, vegetarian folks) and they ALL told me I was overreacting and that it totally just means 'strange'. They had no idea that, yes, even if that word did/does mean that, the other definition is totally more prevalent, and that's what people think when you use it.

I was shocked that everyone took her side. And dismayed. And so I just had to listen to that girl AND THEN MY MANAGER (the one who fired me) use it for the rest of the time I was there.

[indigodove.livejournal.com]

Ugggh. I wouldn't like that either.

How old is she? She's in human services, so IMO she should have the sensitivity to at least recognize that if it bothers you, it bothers you, no matter what she "means" by it.

I hope she hears you this time. Good luck talking to her, if that's what you choose to do.

[mightywombat.livejournal.com]

I think you just need to get up the courage to talk to her about it again. When that doesn't accomplish anything (which it probably won't) you shoudl prepare yourself for a seige. Every time she says something like that, you need to challenge her on it, highlighting the fact that she's using it wrong. When she says, "That's wicked queer" ask, "What's so strange about it" or "It doesn't seem that queer to me; maybe a little strange..." Or when she says, "He was being so gay about it," ask her, "Did he mention somehting about having sex with men?" I think eventually she'll get the point. If she doesn't, you may just have to sit her down and be like, "Look, I'm gay, and that kind of talk really REALLY bothers me, and it hurts me a lot because I like you a lot otherwise, but this one thing is really driving me crazy!" And then see what happens. I think if she really values your friendship she'll consider adjusting her vocabulary.

[00solstice.livejournal.com]

Maybe you should say, "no, this is gay" and give her a big, long passionate kiss.

You know, just to create an unforgettable impression in her mind exactly what, and who, the adjective entails.

Do it, and I'll bet you she won't say it again!

[00solstice.livejournal.com]

Or maybe she would, on purpose, in which case you will have an entirely different problem on your hands.

[etherial.livejournal.com]

"If you don't mean to insult me, don't insult me."

[etherial.livejournal.com]

That's a pretty good sexual harassment/hostile workplace charge right there.

[prettyvacantone.livejournal.com]

Heh maybe I can sue them for back unemployment.

Unfortunately, since I'm not really gay, I doubt that lawsuit would go anywhere.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Let's make out, then you can be honorary gay for lawsuit's sake. ;)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm ashamed to say that we said "wicked queeah" when we were younger also. It wasn't until much, much later that I learned that "queeah" = "queer" = sexual minorities. Color me shocked! We never said "gay" or "homo" or anything like that so I didn't make the connection. And I always thought it was a geographical thing (like us losers in the NE said 'queer' and the rest of the world said 'gay'). *shrug*

And so when she busted out the 'queer' thing I figured it was a throwback to childhood, and I told her it bugged me, and whatever. But now with the addition of "gay," well shit... I haven't heard someone that I /like/ saying "so gay" in, oh, ever.

It's such a foreign world to me! My friend is an asshole! WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN AND WHAT DOES HER GAY ROOMMATE THINK???!?!?!

Re: whoops, sorry

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think you're right that I need to confront her on it again... but when we're alone and not in a crowd of people. I don't think I've ever in my life had a friend that used "so gay" in conversation so it is a foreign world to me. It's always been people I couldn't care less about.

I don't know that her refusal to change is in some way a disrespect to me because I don't know that I've absolutely laid down the "this makes me uncomfortable, please stop" smackdown, but it's going to come up and I guess we'll go from there. I just share an office with this person and don't really want a million uncomfortable moments in the workplace.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

She's my age... well maybe I have a year or two on her - I'd say 28 or 29. Old enough to know better, especially because one of her best friends is some gay dude. *shrug* But yeah, I think it's become so (yuck) commonplace that people can say, "Oh, but I don't mean GAY" and that's somehow acceptable, like there are two different words and one really means "stupid" or that it didn't /begin/ by slandering queer people. Argh!

But I think you make a valid point when you say that she isn't thinking enough of me to filter something out that offends me. I hadn't really thought about it that way before, but you're right. If someone I cared about was bothered by something I said, I sure wouldn't say it to them.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Dude, that seriously sucks. And I still can't believe you got fired like that. HOW LAME. Do you want me to go all queer on their asses?

[prettyvacantone.livejournal.com]

I'm still holding a major grudge about it too, even though my job now is 10,000 times better. I'm not a good "let go"er. I think you getting all queer on their asses would be 100% perfecto! I'll bring the video camera. :)

[anitsirk.livejournal.com]

that is so high school. seriously, by the time you leave high school you should know that "gay" and "queeah" are no longer acceptable adjectives.

perhaps you should start describing all things that suck as "hetero" or "whateverhernameis".

"oh his outfit was so hetero."
"that movie was so hetero. i hated it."

maybe she'll get it? probably she won't.

[jodied.livejournal.com]

You don't have to be gay for that to be a hostile work environment. The mere fact that you asked for it to stop and that it does have a sexual connotation is enough.

But it sounds like people that you probably don't want to work with anyways.

[amyura.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I just turned 29......no excuse whatsoever as far as I see it.

When I taught in an urban district, I found that my students were prone to using "gay." I asked them if it would be acceptable for me to say "that's so black" if I meant stupid-- they said no. I said, "Then you understand why I have a problem with you using "gay" like that in my presence."

I'd keep stressing the "in your presence" thing. That is bothers you, that you think she's basically a cool person and like her, but her use of "gay" and "queer" make it difficult for you to hang out with her. I found that approach to work well with students for all sorts of words/phrases that bugged me (the n-word, "shut up," gay)-- I would tell them I didn't care what they did when I wasn't around (even though I did!) but I didn't want to hear it, and would they refrain from using it out of consideration to me. Maybe even say that you know that's not how she meant it but it still bugs you.

[rachelmichellek.livejournal.com]

what's his name-- dan savage?-- wrote about this a few weeks ago in the savage love column.

Re: whoops, sorry

[lunamoonwmn01.livejournal.com]

I think you do need to "lay down the law" about it, and don't wait until it happens again.

[lemur68.livejournal.com]

I do use "white" as a pejorative.

[geniusorafool.livejournal.com]

Next time she does something silly, tell her she's being so straight.