So gay

[judecorp]

So I have this coworker, and I really like her. We talk a lot, and we goof a bit, and we have a good time together, and I value her opinions. She's a smart girl. But she does one thing that I. CAN'T. STAND.

She is always, ALWAYS, using "queer" as an insult. You know, like "He's so queer," or in true Boston fashion, "That's wicked queer." And I have stepped up and told her that I didn't like it, and she always says, "Oh, you know that's not what I meant" (as in, she doesn't mean anything in reference to queer people). And I tried to explain once that using a word that references a group of people as a replacement for 'stupid' is offensive, and that conversation didn't really go anywhere. And one day I had to make a conscious decision to let it roll off my back (she's not going to change) and so I told myself that perhaps when SHE was saying, "That's not how I meant it," she meant that she was using the /original/ meaning of the word queer, as in strange. Somehow that was more palatable to me.

Last night at Movie Club, though, she was talking about someone or other, maybe an old boss or a teacher or something like that (I forget, I was too hungry from our bad service), and she said, "He was being totally gay about it," and I didn't know what to do. I have /never/ heard her use the word 'gay' (only 'queer') like that. And it hurts so much more, because I can't even use the 'original meaning' excuse in her favor this time.

I didn't say anything to her because I didn't really want to chew her out in front of Movie Club, but I was really burned. It's not like she's a crazy homophobe or whatever, not by actions, just by language... I just don't know how to get through /years/ of her thinking this is okay. And it's been so long that I've had to speak to someone about why using "that's gay" et al is offensive that I am admittedly out of practice. Ugh.

I wish I didn't like her so much. It would be so much easier.

Comments

[ktmcda.livejournal.com]

I grew up with all these rednecks who called each other "queer" in place of stupid. Actually they said "queeah." They didn't use gay that way back then, not where I'm from. (Rural Maine.) Anyway, it wasn't until I went back to college in 2003 that I started hearing lots of people, presumably civilized people, using the term "gay" as an insult.
It seems like regression. It really fing bothers me. I think the worst part is that I'd expect that from some hillbilly. But not from a woman in a suit at the university. And not from a classmate next to me in an upper level policy class.

I just handle it by having a shocked look on my face and saying "what did you say?!" It usually makes them feel like an asshole. Which they are.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm ashamed to say that we said "wicked queeah" when we were younger also. It wasn't until much, much later that I learned that "queeah" = "queer" = sexual minorities. Color me shocked! We never said "gay" or "homo" or anything like that so I didn't make the connection. And I always thought it was a geographical thing (like us losers in the NE said 'queer' and the rest of the world said 'gay'). *shrug*

And so when she busted out the 'queer' thing I figured it was a throwback to childhood, and I told her it bugged me, and whatever. But now with the addition of "gay," well shit... I haven't heard someone that I /like/ saying "so gay" in, oh, ever.

It's such a foreign world to me! My friend is an asshole! WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN AND WHAT DOES HER GAY ROOMMATE THINK???!?!?!

[(Anonymous)]

I think you really need to confront her about it. Let her know that it really bothers you a lot. I would say that when she's around other people she can say whatever the fuck she wants, but you're asking her to not say those things around you. I wouldn't try and argue with her - if she argues just stand your ground. Honestly, no matter how cool she is if she won't stop I wouldn't hang out with her anymore. Someone disrespecting you like that and not willing to change is not worth my time.

whoops, sorry

[lunamoonwmn01.livejournal.com]

Didn't realize I got logged out!

[dollraves.livejournal.com]

How old is she? I've found that people in their 20s really do use queer/gay like that and don't get the association with the homosexual community. It's... disturbing.

It seems she doesn't think enough of you to filter out something that offends you, whether she understands why it does nor not. Chalk it up to emotional immaturity and a general insensitivity to friends.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

She's my age... well maybe I have a year or two on her - I'd say 28 or 29. Old enough to know better, especially because one of her best friends is some gay dude. *shrug* But yeah, I think it's become so (yuck) commonplace that people can say, "Oh, but I don't mean GAY" and that's somehow acceptable, like there are two different words and one really means "stupid" or that it didn't /begin/ by slandering queer people. Argh!

But I think you make a valid point when you say that she isn't thinking enough of me to filter something out that offends me. I hadn't really thought about it that way before, but you're right. If someone I cared about was bothered by something I said, I sure wouldn't say it to them.

[prettyvacantone.livejournal.com]

I had a similar thing happen to me with an old coworker. She called EVERYTHING queer. And I got on her case about it, because it bothers the hell out of me, and she used the same "Oh I just meant it like 'strange' excuse." No matter how much I told her it bothered me, she wouldn't stop. The sad part is, one day I called her on it in front of most of the office (and remember these are all supposed hardcore liberal, Bush-hating, vegetarian folks) and they ALL told me I was overreacting and that it totally just means 'strange'. They had no idea that, yes, even if that word did/does mean that, the other definition is totally more prevalent, and that's what people think when you use it.

I was shocked that everyone took her side. And dismayed. And so I just had to listen to that girl AND THEN MY MANAGER (the one who fired me) use it for the rest of the time I was there.

[etherial.livejournal.com]

That's a pretty good sexual harassment/hostile workplace charge right there.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Dude, that seriously sucks. And I still can't believe you got fired like that. HOW LAME. Do you want me to go all queer on their asses?

[indigodove.livejournal.com]

Ugggh. I wouldn't like that either.

How old is she? She's in human services, so IMO she should have the sensitivity to at least recognize that if it bothers you, it bothers you, no matter what she "means" by it.

I hope she hears you this time. Good luck talking to her, if that's what you choose to do.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I think she's in her late 20s, 28 or 29. She's definitely close in age to me, and she's a licensed counselor. So I agree that she should totally know better. I guess I hold people in the social services to a higher standard. (Because they're the best!)

Thank you for the luck. :)

[mightywombat.livejournal.com]

I think you just need to get up the courage to talk to her about it again. When that doesn't accomplish anything (which it probably won't) you shoudl prepare yourself for a seige. Every time she says something like that, you need to challenge her on it, highlighting the fact that she's using it wrong. When she says, "That's wicked queer" ask, "What's so strange about it" or "It doesn't seem that queer to me; maybe a little strange..." Or when she says, "He was being so gay about it," ask her, "Did he mention somehting about having sex with men?" I think eventually she'll get the point. If she doesn't, you may just have to sit her down and be like, "Look, I'm gay, and that kind of talk really REALLY bothers me, and it hurts me a lot because I like you a lot otherwise, but this one thing is really driving me crazy!" And then see what happens. I think if she really values your friendship she'll consider adjusting her vocabulary.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Well I suppose this is all complicated by the fact that we not only work together, we share an office. (Offices have three people in them.) And it's weird because I know that she likes me, and I know that she respects me, and I also know that she doesn't have anything against Jen and I being together... so I just don't understand why the resistance to change her language? I know it's hard for people to break habits or whatever but it's possible to change things that you say - I've done it, and it's not always easy but it can totally happen.

It's weird to be the token at work. I don't know that I've /ever/ been the only queer on the job before.

[00solstice.livejournal.com]

Maybe you should say, "no, this is gay" and give her a big, long passionate kiss.

You know, just to create an unforgettable impression in her mind exactly what, and who, the adjective entails.

Do it, and I'll bet you she won't say it again!

[00solstice.livejournal.com]

Or maybe she would, on purpose, in which case you will have an entirely different problem on your hands.

[etherial.livejournal.com]

"If you don't mean to insult me, don't insult me."

[eeka13.livejournal.com]

Nice.

[anitsirk.livejournal.com]

that is so high school. seriously, by the time you leave high school you should know that "gay" and "queeah" are no longer acceptable adjectives.

perhaps you should start describing all things that suck as "hetero" or "whateverhernameis".

"oh his outfit was so hetero."
"that movie was so hetero. i hated it."

maybe she'll get it? probably she won't.

[lemur68.livejournal.com]

I do use "white" as a pejorative.

[rachelmichellek.livejournal.com]

what's his name-- dan savage?-- wrote about this a few weeks ago in the savage love column.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah? I've never read that.

[geniusorafool.livejournal.com]

Next time she does something silly, tell her she's being so straight.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

In my experience, it doesn't parallel... it just makes the person saying it (i.e. me) look stupid. Saying "that's so straight" doesn't have the /punch/ because being straight is never thought of as weird or wrong or an insult or whatever. But I definitely need to do something if it's going to continue bothering me.

[quinniepants.livejournal.com]

people left you some good suggestions already. basically, i think you should tell her that it makes her sound really uneducated and ign'nt. but you already have. if she doesn't "get" that she's maligning queers by equating them with stupidity she might not mind that she sounds like a fucking bigot.
in which case do what i like best-- be OBNOXIOUS. when she says, "that's so gay," laugh louder than you've ever laughed before. HAHAHAHAGAY! or- say something pejorative about kikes or spics or coloreds. or retards. if she's in social work, maybe retarded will get her?
i've found that it does not work to turn it around and say "that's so straight." it just doesn't work, there's no power there. she won't think about it, just think it's gay that you tried to use straight as an insult.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

FYI, I think she says "retarded," too. I don't remember. One of my coworkers says "retarded," it might be someone else. And I agree that "that's so straight" just doesn't do it, it just makes you sound silly. Because it's no fun to dis the majority.

I guess I really just need to step up and tell her that it bothers me, and not just mention it in a casual way but really say I don't like it and it offends me. And then if it keeps happening I guess I have to suck it up and realize she doesn't care.

[(Anonymous)]

Your current tactics aren't working. The next time it happens, simply get up and leave her. A few times and she may get the message.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

That would be groovy except that we work in an office together and I need to get my work done! :) And that last night was at a restaurant and the bill hadn't come yet. If I'd left, I'D have been the jerk!

[rizzo41.livejournal.com]

What really really really burns me is that I've heard 'that's so gay' used so much that I actually heard it slipping from my own mouth the other day. It was really distressing and I immediately wanted to punch myself for it.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yikes! Scary! But I know how words can be so insidious and just slip in there, especially when you're surrounded.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, so 'gay' and 'queer' are off limits, can I use 'flaming' if it's in context?

Ten minutes ago, walking up to my building, tall skinny guy, with a perm, pressed shirt, PASTEL SWEATER draped over his shoulders, big tinted glasses and smoking a cigarrette is walking the other way. It's hot this morning. I'm sweating in short sleeves and this guys got two more layers on and smoking to boot. I must have stared. He blew me a kiss.

[hoo.livejournal.com]

D'oh. That was me.

So gay

[toddbear.livejournal.com]

My mom uses gay to mean overly liberal -- as in, "I got a little gay with the garlic" -- she put too much garlic in the stew.

I've always found that to be cute.

Gay as a replacement word for non-functional or broken or unpleasant isn't cute.

-Toddbear

Re: So gay

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Awwh, that IS cute. It's kind of like she's saying she got jolly or happy with the whatever, which is simply adorable because I still love the meaning of "gay" as joyous and celebratory. And really, who doesn't want to get celebratory with garlic?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they amaze me, too. Why doesn't everyone think like we do? It would make things so much easier.