Vaccine Talk

[judecorp]

So a report has finally come out, and I do mean finally, about the lacklustre performance of the varicella (chicken pox) vaccine.

They helped prompt the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices to recommend a booster shot between the ages of 4 and 6. The panel also said in its June 2006 report that children, adolescents and adults should be given boosters as well.

All these boosters over a lifetime? Why not just let kids get the freaking chicken pox?!?? *grumble*

I understand the varicella shot about as much as I understand vaccinating a one-day-old baby against a fluid-transmitted disease (HepB). One day old! WTF? I got vaccinated against HepB TWO years ago - at 29 - after several high-risk jobs. Should I have done it sooner? Sure, but at one day old?

Argh.

Comments

[skreeky]

Even having had the chicken pox as a child doesn't necessarily protect you for life. That's a common myth.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Of course it doesn't. But it doesn't involve getting poked 3-4 times over the lifespan! :)

[lunamoonwmn01.livejournal.com]

It's a public health thing with the HepB - make sure it gets done.

Despite my public health background, we will be doing very few, if any, vaccines. And def. NOT HepB and chicken pox!!

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah... I know the reason they want vaccines done by age 2 is that most people keep doctor appointments for their kids at least through age 2. But as they add more and more vaccines to the mix, they just keep squishing them in. That makes me a little nervous!

[eeka13.livejournal.com]

Yeah, for WTFever reason, this country (and particularly the northeast) is super vaccine-happy. MA has about three times as many "required" vaccines as WA, and it seems that a lot fewer people realize they can opt out of them. As a kid, I wasn't vaccinated against stuff like measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis, because they're no longer things that people get seriously ill from, so getting them strengthens the immune system for otherwise healthy people. Just like chicken pox. Sure, there's evidence both ways for most of these things, but it's plenty common enough for families to choose not to do those vaccines, but not be totally anti-vaccine. (We got tetanus and polio vaccines -- it seems pretty common among European parents and various hippies and whatnot to only do the vaccines for diseases that don't run their course).

So yeah, I'd always brought in a note to school saying that I opted out of vaccines due to personal choice, and the schools in WA had only required 3 or 4 vaccines anyway, and schools in Germany don't require vaccination. When I went to grad school here, the student health person was unfamiliar with the idea of opting out, but didn't give me a lot of crap and let me bring in a letter.

Then I got a healthcare job here, and the nurse person insisted that they can't hire anyone without the vaccines (totally not true -- the only weird thing in MA is that they require you to sign that it's for medical/religious reasons). First, she insisted that "it's impossible for you to have attended school without these 12 vaccines" or however many. I told her I knew which ones I'd had, because my family opted out of some, and she insisted this wasn't possible. Well, first she said "you can't have gone to ANY ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IN THIS STATE." Lady, there are other states with elementary schools in them, even though it's also quite possible to attend school here without vaccinations. Uh, so yeah, I had to bring in tons of information from the internet and talk to several HR people and the freakin company's lawyers before nurse lady would let me write a letter that I wasn't vaccinated. Guh.

The most amusing thing is that this was at a school for kids with multiple disabilities, and many many many of their files had letters that they'd opted out for medical reasons. But it didn't occur to nurse lady that people without severe obivous medical issues might have reasons to opt out. She didn't even ask why I'd opted out -- just insisted it wasn't possible.

Hep B sounds like a good idea, since it's not one that runs its course and makes the immune system stronger. I should look into that.

[kieron.livejournal.com]

perhaps off topic - but I totally got my tetanus stuff done like I was supposed to, only to find out that I am allergic to the damned stuff and should never ever get it again....

Sheesh...it SUCKED....

I had told my PCP in boston when we first moved about what happened and she said I should get it again anyway. When I went back and saw someone else in the practice, who would become Jude's PCP, she told me to never get it again. It's all about opinions also with this stuff with doctors and medicine, as well and it makes it kind of scary.

[lunamoonwmn01.livejournal.com]

I didn't realize there are so many more requirements in the NE, interesting. Dumb about the crap you had to deal with at your job.

Horizontal transmission of HepB is not an issue in the U.S. (as it is in some parts of China, for example)so the only way you can get it is through blood contact or sex. It's much more contagious than say, HIV though. If I were working in a healthcare setting that involved being around needles, I would get immunized. But the reason they do it for babies in this country is to insure vaccination and also, the vaccine company is pretty open about the fact that universal vaccination in the U.S. allows them to pay for vaccinations in developing countries. That's great and all, but I'm not just going to blindly vaccinate my newborn so that it can subsidize developing world healthcare, KWIM? Just like I'm not putting eye ointment in my newborn's eyes because I know I don't have gonorrhea or chlamydia (also a standard public health practice and IMO a really good one...as long as informed consumers can opt out b/c they know they don't have an STD).

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

It's true about MA and the vaccines. When I was doing EI stuff and we had kids come to our therapeutic play groups, we were required to get proof of all of those shots. I was FLOORED by how many freaking shots these little peanuts needed to come play at our center for a couple of hours a week. Ugh.

I am most scared at the number of combo shots, like DTaP and MMR. They seem to have the most risks/effects associated with them and while most kids tolerate them just fine, I don't want to find out I have one of the ones who doesn't, you know?

This stuff is HARD.

[kathrynt.livejournal.com]

Check your pertussis info -- in my county in WA, hundreds of infants are hospitalized and dozens them die of pertussis every year. It's only super-dangerous at one year and below, but at that age, it's extremely serious. That's the only reason we decided to get the pertussis vax done, because there's an ongoing epidemic here.

[kcmedc.livejournal.com]

Here's a little food for thought... They make you get these vaccines in order to go to school, but they never check to see if they took. Case in point, my kids, two out of three had the chicken pox vaccine. It started with the middle child who got a case so bad you couldn't put your finger in between two spots. Then the oldest(she's the one without the vaccine) got them two weeks later and finally the baby but his case wasn't as bad as the other two so maybe the shot did help him out a tad. The whole second grade had to have the vaccine and about 2/3 of the class got the pox. Later it's revealed that the CDC now recommends a stronger dose as well as a booster. I'm with you Jude, get the pox and get them over with, it's much better to get the pox as a kid rather than in adulthood. I am also not immune to rubella despite having the vaccine three times. Heb B also didn't take on me. But you "have" to have these shots to go to school. Sure is giving someone a false since of security.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Well, you either have to have the shots or you need a sort of "opt-out" letter which most schools won't even tell you about. It's frustrating as hell... and it applies to most day cares, too. I am going to have to research the hell out of this, which sucks.

Most of the kids I know who got the chicken pox vaccine got the pox anyway, and most of the cases were not mild. What's the point?

[jeffholton.livejournal.com]

We didn't know about the HepB vaccine until we (we??) were IN labor. It was a touch unexpected, to say the least, and we did a ten-minute crash course on the two-sided, 8.5"x11" information sheet they gave us.

You know that we are NOT gung-ho, "granola" conspiracy theorists, but we opted out of that vaccine (the only one we've opted out of) on the grounds that Mary was hardly in any sort of risk group.

In retrospect, it was probably a pretty good thing, as her poor liver was trying to learn to work overtime to overcome her mild jaundice the first few days. She was almost as yellow as Big Bird.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Wow, they handed you the information while Dina was in labor? That is insane! Talk about inappropriate timing!!

I think that a kid's Birth Day is a pretty crappy time for a shot of ANYTHING. Isn't birth kind of traumatic enough?

[ladygreyy.livejournal.com]

I'm passing on the chicken pox vaccine. Hep B, I will have to look into. I'm pretty much in favor of delaying most of them.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Me too, but I'm worried about running into a problem with child care.

[jucifer.livejournal.com]

hey!
I've missed you.
I'm back.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yay! I was thinking about you just the other day!!

[cappucinogrrl.livejournal.com]

Why not just let kids get the freaking chicken pox?!??

Well, kids do die of the chicken pox. When I was little my mom brought me over to a sick kid's house so I'd catch it, and my dad was pissed.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it totally happens. But it's pretty rare... I think I saw something like less than 100 kids/year or something.

I wonder if anyone dies from the shot? I have no idea about this.

[mnsnstar.livejournal.com]

So what does that mean for those of us who've never had chicken pox and have never had a vaccine for it and had blood tests showing that you don't have a natural immunity to it...what should we do? Get the vaccine? Risk it and hope that when when possibly 80% of the kids in your neighborhood are under the age of 5 and you play with them and or take care of them in some fashion?

I was told last month that I'll need to get the vaccine and it's a series of 2 shots over a 2 month time.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I honestly don't know what it means for folks our age who do not show antibodies to varicella. I'm guessing it means you could choose to risk it and avoid sick kids (although the contagious period starts before the symptoms as far as I know), or you could choose to try the vaccine... but I didn't know it was tested for use in adults.

If you want to ever be pregnant, though, the vaccine is worth a consideration, because getting chicken pox while pregnant can cause some major birth defects.

[anitsirk.livejournal.com]

i got hannah vaxed for varicella, and then spent the weekend with 2 kids who had chickenpox and felt like SUCH AN ASS.

now, she's probably going to have NO immunity from varicella by the time she reaches childbearing age. if she gets CP when she's pregnant, i will never forgive myself.

thing was, i didn't even *know* that you could refuse vaccines at the time (7 years ago). the thought didn't even occur.

and now i hand out the hepb "vaccine information" paperwork to patients and say at the same time: "if you would like to delay this vaccine, please speak to the pediatrician." because really, whose infant is shooting up and having unprotected sex at 2 days old? seriously the sheet says "who is at risk of contracting hep b? and it answers "healthcare workers, people who use illegal iv drugs, and people who have unprotected sex"

i suppose i should go take H for a titre.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Don't feel like an ass, mama. Just get her checked to see if she has immunity, or wait and tell her to do it as an adult before she tries to get knocked up.

I was told by my father (who was not the best at remembering medical info) that I never had the chicken pox. And I certainly did not have it ever during my life of memory (during school years). But when I got pregnant, my midwife ran a varicella check and I was immune... I kind of figured I /had/ to be since I've worked in so many day cares, child welfare organizations, and in early intervention, but it was nice to know for sure.

I am apparently also immune to parvovirus (hand, foot, mouth). Good times in the kiddie land!

Yeah, I kept my handout from my HepB series for a while (and as a healthcare worker, I made the right choice) and was like, "there is NO WAY i'm giving this to a baby."

[cfred.livejournal.com]

I saw this post last night, so when I wound up going to the doctor this morning*, I read the vaccinations chart in the exam room.

The way it read for HepB was: vaccinate pretty quick normally, vaccinate immediately if the mother is positive for a certain factor and the baby is negative, and don't vaccinate if the mother has tested negative for said factor (and you've got the paperwork in the delivery ward to back it up).

* I was there for a rash that blew up big-time over the last 24 hours. Turns out it's just contact dermatitis. Still, it was worth going to get it checked out and make sure, plus get some good cream for it.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Now, I don't know if that's the "rule" but I know that almost all of my clients at my last job got HepB as an infant on Day of Life 1 or 2 (even preemies)... and I would say that MAYBE a handful of them were at risk for anything HepB related maternally. It's standard practice around here (and apparently California too, according to jjustj) that the first dose of the HepB vaccine is given at birth.

It just seems unnecessary to me.

Good luck with the rash!

[halleyscomet.livejournal.com]

I preferred my parents' approach.

I caught Chicken Pox at school.

My parents REQUIRED my younger siblings to associate with me so they would catch it as well. They all caught Chicken Pox as a result.

That said, there was one girl in the class for whom this was her third bout with chicken pox.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I definitely did not catch chicken pox at school. It's possible I got it mildly from my brother sometime as an infant (but I don't know if he had it, either) but it's not in my baby book or anything so who knows? All I know is that I tested with the antibodies, so whatever.

But I would rather my kids get the actual chicken pox than another vaccine, I think.

[hoo.livejournal.com]

My father told us we got Chicken Pox from the Pappy Parkers' Fried Chicken at Roy Rogers.

Dad often resembled the father from Calvin & Hobbes.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Your dad sounds funny!

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Awwh, thanks. You're really sweet! I would like to raise a rockin' girl... but not TOO rockin' because I'd like for her to be at least mildly well-behaved. You know.

xo

[hoo.livejournal.com]

Dad could keep a room full of 5-8 year old children rapt with attention for hours. His father did a Vaudeville act with a dummy, Dad could do all the same voices and routines. (He also did a stint with the Footlights club at Cambridge, where he missed working with John Cleese by a scant 9 years.)

Our yuppie neighborhood saw clowns and ponies at many birthday parties. After one of our parties, Dad fielded several phone calls from parents whose children were insisting he perform at *theirs*.

He also did a wonderful carnival barker for the elementary school Fun Fair.

Also, when we were bad he would threaten to cut our tails off. That and he swore that the Honeywell building had an actual well of honey down the center, and that's where all the bears worked.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

See, I love stuff like that. If you're going to traumatize your kids with lies, do it RIGHT. :)

xo

[(Anonymous)]

Originally the Hep B was scheduled for the 10-12 yr old scene (to prevent sexually transmitted as has been pointed out). There was great resistance among adolescents to being vaccinated so the pediatricians decided to hit two birds with one stone - those infants at risk for perinatal transmission and for protection later in life.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I mean, I know WHY they stuff them all in infancy... I just don't want to do it that way.

[oddharmonic.livejournal.com]

Should I raise my hand here as the first commenter who knew they could opt out of vaccinations for their child and chose to have her get them all anyway?

I had chicken pox before the vaccine was on the market. Of the then three of us (this was before my baby sister was born), I had it the worst and wound up hospitalized with complications. Laurel's birth father didn't have chicken pox until he was 17 (!) and had an equally miserable time of it. I opted for the vaccine for Laurel in hopes of at least lessening the severity if she has it someday.

The varicella vaccine is more interesting to discuss than all the crap flying around here about Governor Helmet Hair's attempt to mandate the HPV vaccine for adolescent girls. I may kick the shins of the next person who tells me getting it for one's daughter goes against God's plan to not have premarital sex. Mostly because I'm too sick right now to kick anyone squah' in the balls.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Oh, the controversy about the HPV vaccine is just ridiculous. As if the vaccine is going to make girls have sex any more than *gasp* having condoms available in stores. Condoms! In stores! Anyone can go GET THEM!!

Hopefully the varicella vaccine will do Laurel good. All of the kids I know who have gotten the vaccine have gotten chicken pox, some to different degrees than others. That's why I don't think I want to bother. Although I agree, getting it as an adult or older teenager really sucks... but the vaccine could make that happen, too, if it runs out like they say.