Car Seat Question - Seatbelt vs. LATCH

[judecorp]

So I decided to get my car seat professionally installed by a cute fireman. Hey, why not, right?

Anyway, I have the Graco SnugRide with EPS Foam or whatever, and the base is usable with seatbelts or LATCH. The LATCH system for my car (Neo the 2007 Toyota Matrix) has LATCH anchors properly spaced for the two outside rear seats (behind the driver and behind the passenger), but the anchors are improperly spaced for the rear center.

Cute Fireman and I had a discussion about which is better - using the LATCH system and installing the seat on one of the sides (thereby increasing risk in a side-impact collision), or using the seatbelt and installing the seat in the center. CF said that the seatbelt should not be any less safe than the LATCH system because the seatbelt has that funky locking mechanism. But I'll be honest, I've watched that sappy YouTube video about that kid in the booster seat too many times. (You know, once is too many.)

So... what do you think? Is LATCH safer than the seatbelt? Right now, CF has the car seat in the center with the seatbelt pulled and locked tightly, and it really does feel nice and snug and tight. And I do feel better having the seat in the middle for crash purposes. But I'm interested in your opinions.

Do you choose "LATCH on the side" or "Seatbelt in the center"?

[Poll #1006608]

Thanks!

Comments

[artjax.livejournal.com]

You should really pose this question to Estelle at faggotsonthethirdfloor.blogspot.com - she is a car seat safety EXPERT. Tell her I sent you:)

She's also got some links to seat safety sites that may be helpful.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I have e-mailed. Thanks! I also know that there is someone (ginky) on LJ who is all certified and stuff. I like experts.

[indigodove.livejournal.com]

I didn't vote because I just have no idea. But good luck with the "final days" here!

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Heh, yeah. Most of the Googling I've done says that seatbelts should be just as safe as LATCH buckles... but you can never be too careful.

With other people's kids that I've transported, I've always used the seatbelts in my car(s) and have never had a problem. But yeah.

[thatpatti.livejournal.com]

i'm gonna link ginky to this. she's the (certified) carseat queen.

my guess would be middle, with seatbelt.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was hoping someone would ping ginky. I would have just felt like a turd showing up on her LJ to be like, "HELP ME!" Thanks, Patti!

[artemis44.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm no expert, but I have done a TON of research on this car seat stuff, and what it seems to come down to is this - latch is better/easier for parents, but center seat is almost always best for the baby. So if you can latch in center, great, but if not, and you are able to get a good fit using the seatbelt in the center, then definitely go with the center!

From what I understand, latch and seatbelt are pretty equivalent - it's just nice to have the option, since in one car one might work better than the other, so good to have choices. But seatbelts are perfectly good and safe, so don't worry about that!

I know, it's scary, trying to sort through everything and make the right decisions... but I think you've already got it, and yay for you for having it professionally installed! :)

[artemis44.livejournal.com]

Oh, and the good folks on teh pregnancy/general moms chat side of fertility friend have a LOT of info on this stuff - several car seat technicians over there...

[rebasayre.livejournal.com]

call me crazy, obessive, whatever. i use both.

[rebasayre.livejournal.com]

oh. both at the same time. yeah.

[scirocco.livejournal.com]

Our car (Jetta) had a LATCH connection in the middle seat. I'd use that if your car has one as well.

That said, the VW standard seatbelt tensioning system did a perfectly fine job of keeping Widget and her booster seat (and me) from going ANYWHERE when we rear-ended the stopped car at 45mph.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, ours only has LATCHes for the side seats. So says the owner's manual.

But I'm glad to hear that the seatbelt worked on the Widget. Because she's a big kid and that was a scary crash! Success story!

[keelamonster.livejournal.com]

the safest place is in the center. I didn't have the Latch system in my explorer, and ella stayed in the center of the back with the seatbelt just fine. We use the seatbelt with Noah's cars.

Also, if it's safe enough to keep a PERSON from being killed in a wreck, it's going to hold your 30 pound sweet pea/carseat combination.

That's what it's made for. :)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Well yes, I guess you have a point there. ;) I'm telling you, the YouTube video MESSES WITH YOUR MIND.

[anitsirk.livejournal.com]

i voted for middle seat with seatbelt.
i think from a safety standpoint, the middle is the safest- and, if you're going to be doing some of the "lean over the carseat and breastfeed for the amusement of truckers everywhere", you can sit on either side if the carseat is in the middle.

[gala.livejournal.com]

Haha! BTDT - But it's not as easy as it sounds!

[leftinwindsor.livejournal.com]

Weighing in from a manufacturer's pov (I do some work for them, so I knew where to find it), here's what clek has to say on this exact question (from the faq on www.magnaclek.com):

My vehicle’ owner’s manual states that the middle of the back seat is the safest position to secure your child. The middle seat in my vehicle does not have LATCH. Which position should I use?

The clek™ booster seat can be used with or without the LATCH function. Children are always safest riding in the back seat. The best placement of a child restraint is where it fits securely whether that is in the left, right, or center position. This position MUST have:

* A shoulder belt – positions with only a lap belt are NOT safe to use
* The tops of the child’s ears MUST be below the top of the vehicle seat back or a fully deployed head restraint on the vehicle seat. If this condition is not met, a booster seat with an integrated head restraint MUST be used.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the info. Sounds like some of it is geared to booster seats rather than my little infant bucket, but still useful. Thank you!

[ginky.livejournal.com]

Patti sent me here, I'm a carseat tech. If you can get a secure fit in the middle it's the safest, with seatbelt or LATCH. If you can't get a secure fit in the middle, a secure fit outboard with LATCH or seatbelt is your best bet.

Since the cute fireman got it in the center snugly, I'd leave it there.

And as for the sappy Kyle video, they leave out the part where most LATCH sytems top out at 40lbs and can't be used beyond that anyways...so their message is really really skewed on that thing. Good intentions, bad info.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Thanks for visiting, I tell other people to come to you all the time. (You're famous!)

I tend to agree that cutie fireman did a good job and I'm inclined to leave it right there. Thanks for chiming in!

And thanks for the info on LATCH topping out at 40lbs. I didn't know that AT ALL... and that's damned good info.

[sudrin.livejournal.com]

I"m still trying to figure out if the baby is supposed to be forward seating or backward seating. Of course, at the rate i'm going I'll never need to know.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Backward-facing until 25-30lbs - different sites will tell you different info.

[kjtoo.livejournal.com]

The MVod has LATCH on both side seats in the rear, but not the center seat. When our cute fireman (yes, I recognize that he was cute, as did my wife) initially installed the seat, he asked which we preferred, and I told him to put it in the center seat, LATCH or no, because everything I've read on the subject has indicated that the center seat is always safest.

Our center seat doesn't have a shoulder belt, but nothing in our car seat manual or vehicle owner's manual suggested that the absence of a shoulder belt made the center seat any more or less safe.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, my LATCH is set up the same way - LATCH on the sides, not in the middle. But we have a middle shoulder belt. Sometimes I think the shoulder belt makes it more confusing, so you're probably totally awesome with just the lap belt. As long as it's tight enough, that seems to be what matters.

xoxo

[splashandwally.livejournal.com]

The safest position and method of attachment is whatever gives you the best install. That said...

The middle does offer a small safety benefit. Yes, I said small. As in, not large. There actually are benefits to being on the side in a frontal crash (less over rotation), and a rollover (less collapse of the structure). Then there are also benefits to being on the side in a SIDE impact... if it's on the other side!

The middle offers no safety benefit for frontal or rollover crashes, and marginal for side. A RF car seat is incredibly safe in any impact, especially a side impact (where RF makes a bigger difference than in a frontal impact, surpisingly). Adding EPS foam makes it even safer. However, the middle is the furthest from any point of impact.

Moving forward, the LATCh/seatbelt dilemma (and yes, I purposely dropped the h to lower case, since it technically is... although it bugs me). You're not actually using LATCh with an infant seat, because you're not using the top tether. You're using lower anchors only, which I am at times fond of and at times bothered by... it depends on my mood. So, lower anchors. I hate hate HATE installing SnugRide bases with seatbelts. Not only because it's a bitch for me, but because I know that 9 times out of ten the parents will royally fuck it up when they try. So... I would tend to lean towards the anchors in this case. UNLESS you have locking latchplates versus retractors, in which case a seatbelt install is golden. I hate locking retractors for RF seats, they're a pain in the ass. I'm betting that's probably what you have, though. In which case... unless that tech used a locking clip, you're going to start seeing major tippage, which will drive you batty and make you uninstall the seat. In that case... I'd use the anchors on the side. I really would. I think you'll get a better install ON YOUR OWN. A tech should not do it for you, s/he should show you how to do it yourself. Because eventually you WILL need to do it yourself, and you'll be completely lost if no one showed you how.

LATCh has a minimal (as in not statistically significant) safety advantage in that a) it was designed FOR carseats, it's not something that already existed that was tweaked to be acceptable with carseats, and b) it's possible to get a tighter install, and more probable that the average parent will achieve an acceptable install. However, LATCh also offers two points of (extremely unlikely) failure, versus one with a seatbelt. And ignore everything that YouTube video made you think... you can find dozens of rebuttals if you look. I sincerely doubt that anything was wrong with that seatbelt, and if I had to place money on it, I would bet that the blame lies solely with the parents. However, I'm not here to comment on that. The truth is that unless you drive a Chrysler vehicle with generation 3 seatbelts, seatbelt failure is extremely unlikely, and lower anchor failure is similarly rare.

My son is in a FF Britax Boulevard installed in the center of a Subaru Forester with a three point belt and top tether. He is also in a rearfacing Boulevard installed with the lower anchors and top tethered on the passenger side in the van. He's FF versus RF in my car for the summer only (though he will likely be 33 pounds by the end of summer anyway) for health reasons. We use my car sparingly for this reason.

The best thing you can do is securely install the seat, safely secure the child, and keep him/her rear facing as long as possible, followed by harnessed with top tether as long as possible. Middle versus side and LATCh versus seatbelt really have no clear winner. Whichever is easiest and most secure is the safest.

How's that for a novel?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Wow, thank you for the wealth of information! Of course now my head is spinning and I feel like I know LESS than I did before! (My fault, not yours.)

You raise a good point that the infant seat isn't totally LATCHed in because you can't use the top tether. I hadn't really thought of it that way... I just know that it doesn't FEEL looser than when I had pulled the LATCH belt as tight as I could. It feels the same. I will keep a close eye on it, though, about the tipping and slippage.

Thank you for stopping by! :)

[lunamoonwmn01.livejournal.com]

I had the same concerns and consulted 5 car seat techs I know personally. All said do the middle seat, hands down. So that is what we did. My uncle is also a fireman and he said the same, fwiw.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the fire fighter I saw (and the car seat book) was pretty adamant about the middle seat. I guess I'll just have to keep checking that the seatbelt stays nice and tight. :)

[kcmedc.livejournal.com]

Jude,
from a paramedic stand point that sees wrecks with car seats on a regular basis, I'd have to vote center with belt. One thing I would recommend is that you don't get the car seat with a break away base. I know they have made improvements but those things still make me nervous. Another thing to keep in mind while using a rear facing car seat is always drape a light blanket over the car seat and baby to prevent glass from flying at baby.

From a mommy stand point, the littlest one is always in the center. Not that I don't like the big kids it's just safest in the middle.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Ha ha about not liking the big kids!

Thanks for the information re: actual crashes. It's helpful. And also about the blanket - I wouldn't have thought of that.

Thank you!

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Oh my gosh, I love Gremlins, too! You are so my BFF!

And yeah, I love the Matrix. It's a pretty sweet car.

[saldemonium.livejournal.com]

Here in Canada it's the law that you have to use the LATCH. Here it's UAS (Universal Anchorage System). If you don't have one, or it's not installed right, you have to go to a dealer and have one installed. If you can afford to have one installed in the middle, I would. That said, when Peter was a baby, all I had available was the seatbelt and they were always secure. You just make sure to pull them out all the way so they lock. =)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I don't even know if there's enough room to install extra clips in the middle. If there were, one would think the car would come that way. I mean, it's totally decked out and is a brand new car. I don't know if that's an option.

I guess I'll have to just really examine it before I use it and make sure it meets my standards. It actually feels just as tight or slightly tighter than I was able to get with the LATCH stuff, so for right now I think it's set.

[rexlezard.livejournal.com]

Where's the option for I'll take the hot firefighter?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Maybe I'll introduce you. ;) Not that I know his name. :)

[hopemcg.livejournal.com]

We wanted to put ours in the middle, but both of our cars are set up like your (latch on the sides). We tried the seatbelt option and could never get it as tight as we would like. It had some side-to-side motion and lots of up and down motion. The angle of the seat was also questionable.

With the latch, it was SO tight. That made our decision for us. Had the seatbelt been tight, however, we probably would have stayed with the middle.

BTW - We put the seat on the passenger side so that the driver could reach back easier.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I think if I were to switch to the side, I would def. do passenger side. For the reason you give and also so that I wouldn't be trying to pull my kid out in oncoming traffic (when parallel parked). So yeah.

I'm going to keep the seatbelt install for right now because it IS super tight. But the minute it starts slipping or something, I think I'll make the move.

Thanks.

[lizardjee.livejournal.com]

we have jaxen in the center with a locked belt because the latches were not spaced correctly in our vue either..

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Do you have any tippage? You know, on the side where the shoulder belt goes up? I get a snug fit with my seatbelt but when I get it really tight, the shoulder belt starts to pull the base up off of the seat of the car. It's annoying.

[jessicaem.livejournal.com]

SHIT, I have a 2003 Corolla, and I installed my car seat with the LATCH anchors. It worked, I thought, but I had no idea the spacing could be incorrect.

Now I have to hope my baby won't be born this weekend so I can go to the police department Monday and get them to check it out. *grumble*