He was just a social drinker, but social every night.

[judecorp]

Sometimes I feel like I'm really thinking this relationship to death. I mean, I really beat myself up about it sometimes: Shouldn't I just enjoy it? Shouldn't I spend less time thinking about it? Things are good, shouldn't I just let them go? But, heck, I'm a thinker - it's just what I do, I analyze (and overanalyze) things all the time. So why should this be any exception, especially when it's so important to me?

murnkay once pointed out that relationships actually need /more/ work when things are good, because it is at those times when we are most likely to take our partners for granted. Because things are running smoothly, we could forget the little things that make relationships worth having. He's a smart monkey, that's why I keep him around you know. So I think that even though we're coming on two years and the last year has been pretty much exclusively smooth sailing, that still gives me the right to think too much! Neener.

So I was thinking about finances, especially. As we've moved into shared living space, we've acquired a number of shared bills between us. It's not feasible for us to pool all of our money into a joint bank account, largely because I don't particularly like them (and because I think that having each one of us know what we're spending all of our money on is ridiculously unnecessary), but at the same time, I don't know that I want to spend the future writing checks to each other to "pay back" for this bill or that bill or the groceries or whatever. My mother has done that for twenty years, and it works for her, but I think for me it will get really annoying really quickly. I don't want to keep up with that kind of accounting: Did you pay me back for the electric bill? Did I give you half the phone bill? If the phone bill is $30, and the electric is $70, why don't you just give me... augh, it gives me a headache.

I was sort of thinking of a financial compromise in which we would keep our current separate bank accounts (checking and savings) and open a new account that would be shared but would only include the money used to pay the joint bills. That way, we would know how much needed to go in there per month, and we wouldn't have to play the payback game or the write two checks to the same person game. At the same time, having an account with both names on it makes our partnership more formal in another area of the legal world, and I do derive some satisfaction from that. I was also puttering around with the idea of a joint savings account with which we would save money toward our next moving venture, or a future trip, or something... but I decided against that for now. (Neither one of us is in much of a position to save right now anyway.)

So, what do you guys who are in relationships do with your finances? And does this strategy sound feasible? I appreciate any and all input. Even yours. :)

Comments

[sudrin.livejournal.com]

I've spoken with people who have a "House" account and it seems to work out if both people are committed to the idea. Personally if I was in that situation, that is what I would want to do as well. I agree that it takes some of the fun away from things if you have only ONE account so when christmas or birthday rolls around you are really spending "everyones" money on each others gifts, etc. So having this sort of situation is very feasable I think. But hey, I'm a single guy who spends almost all his money on his self. So what do I know. ;-)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

it takes some of the fun away from things if you have only ONE account so when christmas or birthday rolls around you are really spending "everyones" money on each others gifts

I agree. I would hate to, say, buy her a birthday present, and have her know how much it cost or whatever the next time she needed the checkbook. Where's the fun in that?

This is gonna be long...

[prunesnprisms.livejournal.com]

The way we do it, is that Matt has all the bills in his name and pays for them every month, including long distanec and groceries. If for some reason, I have to buy groceries for the house without him we add that in there too. We also put down joint purchases like cleaning supplies, ethernet cable, new things for the house network...

Put it all into a spreadsheet and I write him a check once a month. I pay 45% of the rent, half of all the bills/groceries/household expenses, and all my long distance.

Spearate from this, I pay: My car insurance, my credit card bills, my groceries for work, my gas and repairs for Dixie, and personal expenses like clothes.

We do not bill each other for eating out or movies/entertainment. We try to keep that a little less calculated, so either it's dutch when we're both pressed or I volunteer one time, he volunteers the next. It eventually works out in the end.

I know I am anal retentive about money, but this works for us even if it sounds complex. Also we have the spreadsheets so we can easily look and estimate expenses for the upcoming months based on an average. It complements my personal budget spreadsheet.

Re: This is gonna be long...

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I think that's a good strategy, especially since you keep your budget so tight and so organized with those spreadsheets.

I don't know that I could do that system, though, if only because I couldn't afford to pay all the bills and then get paid back like that. Jen gets paid once a month, so it's pretty easy for her - she gets her check, pays all her bills in one shot, and then knows how much money she has for the rest of the month.

I'm not sure about this new job, but I was getting paid biweekly - so I had to figure out which bills to pay when (like to set one check aside for rent)... and I don't know how the two systems would merge. Well, that and we each have bills in our names - I have the electric (because I transferred it from my old place; she didn't pay utilities at her last place), she has the phone (it was hers, for her DSL).

We haven't really worried too much about when one or the other of us picks up things like laundry detergent or other household stuff. We probably should, but we don't keep as strict a budget as you.

So yeah, I don't know what I'm saying here, except that it seems like a really good strategy for you guys, but I don't know if it's something I could put into practice. :) Thanks for the input!

Got plenty money 'cause I just got paid...

[kjtoo.livejournal.com]

When Laura and I got married, we had a total of three checking accounts: hers, mine and ours. My paychecks never vary by more than about a penny, so it was very easy to set up direct deposit so that $100 was dropped into my checking account every payday and the rest went into our joint account. Laura's paychecks were a little more variable, so I pretty much left it up to her to decide how much she'd keep for fun and how much would go toward paying the bills.

For the most part, this system worked fairly well. It kind of fell apart when Laura quit her job, because I stopped the direct deposit into my personal account. Instead, I wound up transferring money from the joint account whenever I needed it. That really didn't work well, for a variety of reasons. Finally, I just decided to get rid of my personal account last week.

My major shortcoming in the realm of financial couplehood is not having a grasp of what our expenditures are each month. I'm lazy when it comes to money, and Laura deals with the bulk of our financial concerns. At any given moment, I really have no idea how much money we've got.

So, there you have it. The three account system worked okay (I won't say perfectly) when there were two incomes, but quickly fell into shambles when I stopped having a set amount of "fun" money every month. And Mister Instant Gratification needs to be more active and aware where finances are concerned.

Re: Got plenty money 'cause I just got paid...

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can see where that system wouldn't work with only one income... besides, with only one income, how would you have money to even PUT in more than one bank account? Heh.

I can't imagine there will ever be a time, on our salaries, where there will be only one income. Unless one of those incomes becomes THE LOTTERY.

[murnkay.livejournal.com]

We keep money very seperate. I pay most normal biulls, she buys food and pays for the car since it's hers anyway.

I make more money so I fund entertainment (I buy most books movies etc) and otherwise we just do whatever.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that totally makes sense when one person makes lots more than the other. (Want to pay some of mine, too? Hee.)

Right now, we're almost evenly split on salary, but she has a lot more personal bills than I do... so when I'm actually /making/ money, I pay more of the entertainment expenses, since I have more disposable income.

[mayna.livejournal.com]

We have a joint account that our checks go into, and then we each get the same amount for personal spending money. That kind of makes things even since he of course makes a lot more money than I do. When you throw kids into the mix, you end up with a lot of bills that aren't mine or yours. The personal spending money is for gifts and other "personal" things.

My neighbors, the husband works FT and the wife works doing daycare out of the house. Obviously he makes a ton more money than she does. They have it set up so he pays certain bills (the mortgage, and some others) and she pays certain bills (I forget what), and what they each have left over is their own.

[ralphmelton.livejournal.com]

We do the same thing Mayna does; most of the money goes into a joint account, and then we each get a monthly amount for personal spending.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Having kids definitely changes the whole situation.

I don't know if I would be okay, at least not right now, with having a sort of "allowance." Right now I still very much want the freedom to spend my money the way I want (if I want to spend it on us, cool, or if I want to spend it on me, cool), and I don't think I could handle establishing a big pool of money and taking, say, $150 from it.

But that's me.

[jadefu.livejournal.com]

Our attitude has pretty much been it all goes to the same place anyhow. After all this time, there's not really his money and my money any more. The bills get paid from wherever the money is. We have one joint checking account that is kind of "my" primary account, and is really only used by J when he needs to pay a bill, so he'll grab the checkbook.

Of course, everything's in chaos right now with him moving and going to school and our finances changing anyhow, so it's all reshuffling.

Thinking back, even when we first started living together, we were never strict about dividing up the bills 50-50 every month. Whoever had some money, paid them. Whoever had grocery money, bought food. It all worked out in the long run. :)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

We seem to be way more in love with the idea of being "equal" for that.

I mean, I know that if she really needed money, I would offer to help her (or her to me). I don't know that either of us would take that help. Not right now.

[communista.livejournal.com]

When we get married, we're going to have a bill/grocery account (checking) and a certain portion of each of our checks will be deposited there. Then we will each have our own accounts for frivolous spending (not really frivolous, but you get the idea).

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much exactly what I'm talking about. :)

[juliann.livejournal.com]

In this country you're allowed to pay for the rent with two separate checks. Well actually all rent is done by direct debit but it can come from two different accounts and pretty much always does in case of unmarried roomates regardless of their relationship status (and which they generally want to do for married couples even when they learn we have separate accounts).

We've never had equal incomes so we've never had the situation of trying to make everything fair and equal. But we've had various splits such as when we were first living together I paid the rent, he paid everything else. Then when first married he paid the rent, I paid everything else (he made more money then).

We've never ever had joint bank accounts, because I knew I had a mountain of student loan debt when we got married and I didn't want any creative lawyers trying to claim we had a community property marriage.

However with our bank accounts you can just transfer money over the internet from one account to the other in seconds (shows up in theirs the next day) so it's never been any hassle to worry about that bit anyway.

I guess the reason why I can't help you much is that we have always shared accomodation under a permanent relationship situation. As in we were engaged and then married and while engaged we just started behaving as though married because all money was already "ours" not "his and hers". I don't think it ever crossed our minds to try to share things out evenly. We just figured out how much our total bills were, figured out how much each could contribute and voila.

So what did you do with A. before you were married and why did you (apparently) not like that system?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

We /can/ pay rent with two separate checks, but it's just kind of a pain in the butt. Other bills I like to pay online through the bank, so it makes it impossible to do with two accounts. (I have a feeling the utility companies would majorly manage to screw up two online transactions coming from two different accounts.)

And I don't know that either of us doesn't have permanence in mind, I think we're both just hyperconcious of some desire to be equal contributing partners in everything. That's probably from our respective natures.

So what did you do with A. before you were married and why did you (apparently) not like that system?

It went in stages. When we first got together, we obviously had completely separate finances. IIRC, he didn't even have a bank account. He was making very little money (I want to say $75/week or so, I think) and living off student loans. He found himself in a bad financial position and his parents didn't/couldn't (not sure) help him.

So we decided (together) that he would take a semester off from school and move down to Boston to stay with me (cheap) where he could work full time at a higher rate of pay. At this point, he owed out a LOT of money to utility companies and collection agencies and such. Because there was a time crisis with some of the payments, I paid some of them out of my savings and he (and his roommates) paid me back.

At that time, we got a joint checking account, since pretty much all of his income was being funneled back into my savings account. We were engaged by then and it seemed the next logical step - to pool finances to make sure his bills got paid.

From then on, we had a joint account. He was in school for a lot of it, and it was easier to pool money (pretty much so he could stay afloat) to make sure everything got paid. When we moved to Ohio, we opened joint accounts again. Throughout this time, I kept the savings account that I had before we got together - it stayed in my name alone.

Money was a really sticky issue between A. and me, and I'm not sure entirely what the cause was. I know that he felt threatened when my income was paying his bills (especially for things like my engagement ring), and I know that he was always concerned that our relationship was imbalanced because of it. And I know that I felt, a lot of times, like even though our relationship was really struggling, he was staying with me for financial reasons.

But having a joint account did work best for us in the end, because one or the other of us was always in school.

[sudrin.livejournal.com]

Let me whorishly recommend Microsoft Money and a bank account that allows you to do PC banking (Not internet banking unless it allows you to download into Microsoft Money) and some kind of sexy billpay. I LOVE doing my banking electronically and I try and get legions of followers. ;-)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

You're going to hate me for this, but I hate online money programs. I like keeping my checkbook balanced by hand - it makes me feel more invested in what I'm doing and more likely to do it correctly.

Thanks for the suggestion, though. I /do/ pay my bills online through my bank, but I always enter the amounts by hand into my checkbook.

[pica-nc.livejournal.com]

I did something similar - a joint account that was used only for bills (only, it wasn't, and the person "borrowed" money from it when in a pinch, but I doubt your or Jennifer are like that.)

I would gladly do it again if in a relationship, only I wouldn't get an ATM card or a debit card for it and just use the paper checks (paid for by that account). Hell, if I had a long term roommate, I'd do that.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can't imagine there would be any "borrowing" going on without knowledge. Wow, that would really suck!

[yarnaddict.livejournal.com]

Our finances all go into one account, and we take out a certain 'allowance' every pay day. It sort-of works.

One of my coworkers and her husband maintain their separate accounts, where X amount each paycheck goes into a third 'joint account' from which their household bills are paid. They each make their own car payments, buy their own toys, and never have to worry about spending the other person's money. It works really well for them.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

What your coworkers are doing sounds exactly like what is in my head. I think, at least for now, it would work best for us.

Right now we're in different places financially, and we also just basically have /totally/ different philosophies about money and spending. So if we /were/ to combine all our finances like that, I think it would cause more harm than good, or else one person would have to change to the other's philosophy (which is not likely, and would probably cause resentment).

[iansha.livejournal.com]

Well, P. and I had a joint bank account from the time we moved in with each other (uhm, I think he's still using it, but I'm not).

Back in the beginning, neither of us had a ton of money and we shared all expenses 50/50 anyway... so it just made it easier.
When we both had incomes coming in (and they were quite unequal - Damn SW salaries!)... we would still deposit into the same account and then make 'reasonable' purchases (eg DVD's, CD's, lunch out, etc) without consulting one another and larger purchases after checking the account in Quicken (after bills were paid) and doing a quick 'do you care' to each other.

Honestly, we never really had any problems with it.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's pretty much what A. and I did, aside for the Quicken part.

We would spend on casual purchases no problem (as long as we would make sure to put the receipts in the checkbook so we knew what had gone out), and then make decisions on the "big stuff" together.

It worked for us for the most part in practice, but it actually ended up /really/ bothering him later, which I didn't find out about until we broke up.

[iansha.livejournal.com]

Oh!

And for savings... we never really thought we were in a position to save, either... but what we did was just make a direct deposit of a small amount ($100 or so a month) each into a savings account and usually forgot it was there. It would add up quickly!

But... if we really needed it for a bill or something, it was easily accessible by online transfer.

Something to think about.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, totally.

I currently have a pretty substantial savings. I am a very frugal person by nature, and also have been given sums of money by grandparents on occasion (which I almost never spend).

Right now, I'm trying to move into a position (once I start getting paid at the new job and know exactly how much my checks will be) where she and I can sit down and look for "room" in our budgets where we can both make deposits into a joint savings account, to save on "us" things - namely wherever our next move will be.

[jeffholton.livejournal.com]

I give Dina all my money.

She spends it all. ;)

But seriously. She handles all the bills, major purchases, taxes, blah, blah, blah.

I feel very kept. :)

I only need to know how to get at all the stuff in case something (the unthinkable) happens. I know how to do that.

I get cash out of the ATM or POS when I need it. I use the check-card or the Visa for personal spending otherwise. Every once in a while she tells me that things are tight this month [get your mind out of the gutter, Jude], and I don't get any cash out. I can live with that.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

My mind is not in the gutter, silly! I was talking about financial planning for the future! Pbbbblt!

Basically, what you and Dina do is a lot like what A. and I did (I was in charge of the bill paying and stuff), and I thought it was working just fine.

When we broke up, it seemed like he had a lot of resentment toward me about it, that I didn't know about at the time. (Of course, it could have been just "one of those things you say when you're mad" but I guess I'll never know.)

[elspazz0.livejournal.com]

carlos and i avoid this problem by having no money.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

HA HA HA HA HA!

[haloumi.livejournal.com]

The lovely Kefalotiri and I have taken it in turns over the years to be the main source of income in the house and have never really kept track of individual contributions. We live well but, by a lot of people's standards, we live frugally.

Neither of us are very interested in buying that many toys and we don't buy huge presents for each other on birthdays and Christmas. In fact, we spend far more on other people than we do on ourselves because we buy the things we need as we need them.

We pay ourselves a nominal amount of pocket money each fortnight from our pooled money which gives us both the ability to buy things (snacks, beers, stuff like that) as we need to.

During Christmas shopping we normally allocate a small amount and buy a number of surprise gifts for each other which go up to that amount.

We still eat very well, go out and have fun, drink good alcohol and rarely notice that we don't have unfettered access to our money.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

That seems very sensible and honorable, and it also seems to be the popular choice from the other married people who responded.

Perhaps I'm not mentally at that place yet. I'm not sure. I know I'm not entirely ready to do that, because I know I'm not entirely comfortable with her coming up with money to pay if my car breaks down, or vice versa.

I just have issues.

[purpleboots.livejournal.com]

Thanks for posting this, Jude. I have also been thinking about this a lot, and I have just gotten myself more confused about it. I think my options right now are:
-continue to pay all of the bills (as I have been) and have my girlfriend write me a check
-hand over a certain amount of bills (probably utilities and such) for her to pay from her checking account each month (most places don't care if the name on the check matches the name on the bill as long as it clears)
-get a joint "bill" checking account for the joint bills and pay my bills (student loans, car, insurance, etc.) from my account
-rob a bank, pay off all of my bills and move to Canada

I liked seeing all of the comments on this post. I think Marilyn and I are going to sit down at the computer, read your post together and weigh out the options.

Oh, to answer your question, up until recently, Marilyn didn't have a job (since we got together 10 months ago) and I was responsible for everything (bills, entertainment, food, etc.) She got a job a few weeks ago, but for now, her hours aren't set in stone and we don't know how much she is going to be willing to work (because she's taking a few classes now) and how much they are going to let her work (when they get out of the busy season). So, we are kind of in transition. Floating along, not knowing what's going to happen. She just got a checking account and deposited her first check, so we are going to talk about it soon and work it all out.

I just don't know if I have the energy to keep another checking account balanced. But, it may be a good idea.

Thanks.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'm glad to help! I hope that you and Marilyn can get to the bottom of this financial mess. And maybe Jennifer and I can do the same thing. :)