Gym 5, Jude 0

[judecorp]

Ugh, that damned gym in Dorchester.

Remember those days when I went to the gym like a good do-bee? Yeah, me too. That was a long time ago. I was a diligent gym-goer until my dad died completely unexpectedly and we spent far too much free time for a year and a half going through his things and emptying out his house and making sure my grandparents were doing okay. And I just plain stopped going to the gym, although I was nice enough to continue to pay them monthly for a year. See how considerate I am?

Eventually last summer I got tired of paying full price (even the reasonable $35) and put my account on hold for three months ($5/mo). And then in October Jen started working in Amherst and I went back into the gym (Keep in mind going there makes me feel like a weenie because I paid for a year+ with no gym action) to cancel my account. Filled out a form, have a nice day.

I got charged in November. And December. And January. Full price. I called in November. And December. And January. Got lots of "so and so will call you back" with no callbacks, and I admit it - sometimes I would forget. There was Thanksgiving, and Christmas, and the dead baby, and seven weeks of bleeding, and the new job... you get the idea.

When I got charged at the end of January, I was like, "This is it." I made it my mission to call. And call. And call. Oh my god, they hate me there. I call Jessica. She says, "You have to talk to Carol." I call Carol. She says, "You have to talk to Jessica." Yesterday Jessica tells me, when I ask why she hasn't called me back, "I have other things to do, you know. I don't just sit around and look for your paperwork all day. Call Carol."

So I have called at least three times a day since Monday. Yesterday Jessica finally tells me, "You never deleted your account, you put it on hold." "Yes, in August. And I came in AGAIN in October." (OMG how many months have I told you this?) She says, "Carol will definitely talk to you tomorrow." I am not above crying to these people. Oh no, I am not.

This morning, I call Carol. The manager. She says, "You put your account on hold." I hate these people. I tell her AGAIN. I tell her I've been calling since NOVEMBER. She says, "I will figure something out and call you on Monday."

I wonder if *I* will have to call *her* on Monday. Any bets? I am trying to get back 3 months of fees by this point. $100 might not seem like a lot, but we could buy a LOT of groceries with that.

Comments

[dollraves.livejournal.com]

Call your credit card company and have them refuse the charges from here out.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

It's direct debit from my bank account number. Will that work with them, too? I didn't think it did, which is why I haven't called my bank, but if you think it will, I will.

[kungfoogirl.livejournal.com]

If you've cancelled your account and they are still charging you, the bank will absolutely help you.

And besides, it would be worth a 10 minute phone call to find out.

It's more difficult to get back money they already have than it is to keep them from taking more.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

That's true, I guess it can't hurt to call the bank. I am just so tired of calling ANYONE, esp. because every time I get on the phone about this gym thing, I get so frustrated that my voice gets weepy and I HATE THAT.

[jadefu.livejournal.com]

Especially if you filled out a form and have a copy of it, call your bank. I had a similar probably a few years ago, and my bank stopped the automatic debit similar to stopping payment on a check.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I don't have a copy of the form. If I did, I could have sent it to them in November. I never got a copy. Which is a shame.

[marshmelococoa.livejournal.com]

Stop calling and go in there. Make them see you right now and figure it out. That is just rediculous. Then as you're leaving, tell them how much you've complained about them to your friends and none of them will join their pathetically run gym.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I can't go there - it's 2 hours away! That's why I cancelled the account, because I moved.

I /could/ have gone a million times during the holidays (they are closer to my grandparents' place) if they had TOLD ME THEY LOST THE FORM. You know, when I called the first time.

[marshmelococoa.livejournal.com]

I know, but if you could manage it's a sure way to get it handled right now. Maybe you could just tell them you're coming down there, with your lawyer, if they don't straighten it out right now. I bet that will get their fire lit!

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

If I told them I was coming, they would probably say "okay." Then I would be stuck with a 4-hour round trip!

[artjax.livejournal.com]

Assholes.

And there 100 miles away, right? Damn.

I have issues with gyms (they seem to be the only large entity to do so) that charge a monthly that you can't just...drop at any point in time. They do this so that you'll keep paying, even though you don't go. Cuz you signed up in January as a NY resolution or whatever. They know you'll likely quit in March, but they'll get you for MONTHS. I actually went to one gym that had a 3 month cancellation policy. I did manage to get out of it okay (cuz I read the contract) but I imagine most get taken advantage of in this way.

Good luck. (and, I'm sorry you were rear ended yesterday, slight as it may have been. My car has one minor scratch on it and it drives me nuts every time I look at it)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

The reason I chose this gym (aside from the fact that it was next door to my work and was the cheapest) was that it did not have a minimum membership. If you wanted to quit after one month, you could. I never cancelled my membership when my dad died because I always intended to get back into working out. It just didn't end up that way. Phooey.

But yeah, they know they've got me over a barrel because I can't just bust in there and cause a ruckus.

[estrange.livejournal.com]

How annoying. Maybe you should ask to speak to Carol's boss.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I think Carol owns the gym. I'm not 100% on that, though.

[skreeky]

I found myself in a similar situation, and I found that very effective was a letter outlining the entire proceding from beginning to end, stating clearly what I had done when, and what I wanted them to do now, and very clearly stating that this letter was CC'D TO THE ATTOURNEY GENERAL.

Not cc'ing the AG, not very effective.

When the AG's office called me to follow up, they seemed unsurprised that this time I had gotten a response.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I am going to see what happens on Monday when they "sort things out." If I don't get a good answer (or even if I do, just to confirm), I will try your AG technique. Thanks!

[hazelpeach.livejournal.com]

Stupid question - have you told them you've moved? That should be the obivious reason.

Do you have a copy of your membership? Y'know..the fine lines on the back? Surely it'd say how you can cancel it? I'd write a letter, send it certified, then have teh bank stop paying them.

But that's me.

And yes, $100 is a lot. you can buy a lot of groceries with that. In my household, $50 is a lot, bec we could use it to pay gas or get more food. (We go through six loaves of bread and nearly 8 gallons of milk A WEEK!!!!)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I've told them I moved every time we've spoken on the phone.

I have a copy of my initial membership form but I never got copies of the time I put my account on hold or the time I cancelled it. So if they don't find my cancellation paper, I don't really have any proof that I /did/ cancel it.

I'm afraid that if I stop the charges at my bank that the gym will send me to collections, and then I will get a ding on my credit report. My credit rating is VERY good and I don't want to mess with that.

And holy crap, that's a lot of bread and milk!!!

[hazelpeach.livejournal.com]

Well, you should be able to explain to the credit bureau that the membership was cancelled. If anything, you can take them to small claims court and say, "I moved. This is why I cancelled the membership."

Yeah, there's six people under one roof at Casa de Jennafei. :)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I'm just really nervous about creditor stuff. So many people I know have messed up credit and it really scares me! I've worked hard for my high credit score! :)

[aminahfiddler.livejournal.com]

Here's what I would do -- good luck:

1. call speak to carol, if she passes the buck back to Jessica. Say "You know, I'm getting frustrated, you keep telling me Jessica, she keeps telling me you. Why don't you put me oh hold, go get Jessica and we'll all talk at the same time.

if that doesn't work.

2. Write a certified letter with return receipt. Don't loose the receipt. State exactly what you want. No blame just exactly what you want and expected timeframe for them to complete it. Like I want my account closed and I expect a receipt in the mail to me with in 7 days and a refund check. If they sign for it, then wait the specified time and follow up if you don't get it. By follow up, I mean take the letter to your bank and cancel the payment. Look for a free attorney service and have them write a letter.

Regardless of what happens. Write a Letter to the better business bureau.

Writing a letter is legal. Emails and phone calls are not.
No sense spending much more time on the phone. You have already show it doesn't go far.

Good luck.

Oh an my famous line that almost always works when I'm no the phone. "you obviously can't help me with this so I won't waste any more of your time, why don't you let me speak to your supervisor. Yes, Yes, I'll wait while you go get them. Oh there not around. That's OK I'll speak to Their supervisor." when they get on the phone say "Before I go any further, please understand that I'm frustrated and if I loose my temper you'll have to forgive me you are the (number of person) that I've talked to about this problem."

Good luck.

[keelamonster.livejournal.com]

Actually, emails are considered a notice in writing for legal contracts and such, if the gym or whoever you're contacting has provided you with an email as a way to contact them. Also, phone calls are also legal once she's already signed the cancellation form, as long as she can document the phone call (the best being to record it, of course, but there's no reason she can't document each call on a calendar or piece of paper).

Faxes are also legal and the easiest way to do it is to call the gym, ask for the fax number, say you're faxing someting to them, and then call to make sure that they got it. That way they can't claim 'we never got the fax' or similar.
But I agree on the BBB.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

My biggest concern is that I have absolutely nothing tangible to back me up. I didn't document phone calls, I don't have a copy of my deletion form, and I don't even know what day I went in to cancel. I just assumed it would all be okay and didn't worry about it, you know? Then I got pregnant, moved, started bleeding, lost the baby, did the holidays, etc. The gym wasn't my highest priority so I kind of deserve it.

As for talking to higher-ups, it's a small, locally-owned place and there's usually only a couple of staff people there at any time - the reception person, the day care person, and whoever is teaching an aerobics class. They're not a big company with a bunch of higher-ups... even the owner/manager lady also does personal training and teaches some of the classes.

[keelamonster.livejournal.com]

I had problems with my gym too. And when the overcharged me and didn't pay me back. I found out that the gym was broke and had no money to pay me back with. nice, huh?

Anyway, here are things you need to do: document, document, document. Write down everything you did and when and to whom you spoke.

Write the gym a letter andfax it. once you fax it, call and confirm that hey got the fax. Write down who you talked to and when they got the fax. Keep a copy of the letter.
THe letter should outline exactly the dates you put the account on hold and when you came in and cancelled your membership. tell them you expect them to reimburse you for the months that you were cancelled and they didn't stop charging you. let them know that you're reporting them to the Better Business Bureau (call and report them, too) and that if they don't make arrangements to get you your money back, you'll initiate contact with the state regulating agencies and the attorney general.

Call your bank and tell them that the bank charge is no longer a valid or approved charge. Send them a copy of your letter you faxed so they can see that you mean business.

The only thing that's going to bite youin the ass is that the gym may try to go to a creditor/collection agent to get your money after the bank denies the charges. If that happens, send them a copy of the letter. You may or may not get your money back, but at least you'll stop getting charges and you won't get a collector banging on your door.

The important thing, though? Document document document. If you can point to a paper trail, they will fold. It sucks you don't have a copy of the form from October, but you can at least start with copies of everything from now on.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

The problem is this (and it's my problem, I totally acknowledge that): I don't know the exact dates. I don't know when I walked over from work to cancel, I don't know the dates for most of the times I called. I know I tended to call at the beginning of every month because I would notice the charge on the bank account, but I didn't keep records. I really have nothing to back myself up at all except to say, "No! I swear I was there and signed a paper!"

I would feel kind of lame sending them some sort of document when I don't even have my facts straight. I have a feeling I am going to get screwed out of the money but I guess I deserve it for not being more careful with the documentation and not going after then aggressively sooner.

[keelamonster.livejournal.com]

You may not know exact dates, but you know it was October. So outline that in your letter.

At the very least, send (fax) them the letter saying you canceled in October and that, needless to say, you expect that account to be cancelled now. Also, when you put it on hold? When did they take it off of hold? And why do it then? Did the hold just run out? Because the day that they change it from hold back to full amount? That's probably the day you cancelled it and where they screwed up.

Just a thought.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Well I /think/ it was October. I suppose it could have been early November. But I will keep telling them October, because I think it was.

I think I will wait and see what Monday brings.

~//~

As for the hold, holds have 3-month limits. So my August hold would have run out in October anyway and it would have just popped back to full price. But that was a good thought. :)

[tiannasins.livejournal.com]

Those bastards!! I hate when organizations feel it's right to just rip you off and then give you the run around. It got my blood goin' just by reading it. ARRRGG. You go get them girl!

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I am so not a confrontational person. This kind of stuff totally drives me nuts! Argh!

[cappucinogrrl.livejournal.com]

That's total bullshit.

I remember an episode of Friends where one of them finds out that Chandler has a gym membership he never uses. Chandler goes down to the gym to try to quit, and they just keep busting out attractive women in spandex to get him not to quit.

If it comes down to it, you can call the credit card company and explain it to them. Tell them you won't pay anymore, that you shouldn't have had to pay before.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Dang it, where are MY women in spandex?

I wish I had done it on a credit card, but I had them direct debit from my bank account. I didn't anticipate a problem. I should have. :(

[cappucinogrrl.livejournal.com]

Don't be so hard on yourself.

If anything, this is one of those fun learning experiences. Think how much wiser you are now.... But yeah, it still sucks.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I hate learning experiences! :)

[skatured.livejournal.com]

Do they have a corporate head? Can you go above them and complain to the parent company?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Naw, they're not a chain. They were a small gym owned by local folks. (That's why I liked them.) Hopefully it will be resolved soon.

[live-from-atl.livejournal.com]

It turns out that filing a complaint with the AG's office is very easy in Massachusetts: http://www.ago.state.ma.us/sp.cfm?pageid=2316

In my experience, you will almost always get some kind of result this way, maybe all the months of money back, maybe just some. Don't fret overly about having to "prove" every little thing. Tell the AG's office what happened, keep documentation from now on, and as you find older documentation, keep it too.

Liza (of LizaWasHere.com)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link - I will check it out when I get home. Of course, the gym has now popped down the priority list again now that I need to call the guy who hit me last night to tell him there is more damage to my car than I thought, and see about filing a police report, etc. etc.

Sigh.

[vorpalbla.livejournal.com]

Write the fuckers an angry letter and threaten them with Small Claims Court, Better Business Bureau complaint etc.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Dude, you know I'm no good with the threats. I'm too nice.