Singing the Milk Blues

[judecorp]

Thank you so much for all of your overwhelming comments/e-mails/well-wishes. Today I think I read something like 260 e-mails and comments of nice things and excitement about our family. There is no way I will ever respond to all of them, so let me just give the lamest thanks ever and let you know that it means an awful lot to me that our kid is loved by so many awesome people. No, really.

This has been a rollercoaster of a couple of days, mainly due to the fact that my milk hasn't come in. Yesterday our kid stopped wetting diapers, so we made our first trip to the doc. (It's kind of convenient that they're open 365 days/year.) She was borderline on the dehydration and the weight loss, so they sent us home and said they hoped my milk would come in last night. Nope. Back in today and the dehydration was a little worse and she lost more weight. Ugh.

They were very sweet and kind about it, but pretty much made us supplement with formula right there in the office. I cried the entire time, and it didn't help that the first nurse that checked us in made a comment about how the baby was "starving." So I told the doc about it and he's supposed to have a chat with her. Anyway, the OTHER people were incredibly nice and tried to make me feel better by telling me it's probably temporary, that my milk should fully come in really soon, and they were really good about finding a system that worked for us that was as non-disruptive as possible. So they gave us a little catheter attached to a syringe and we squirt some formula into her mouth while she's already nursing. It's a huge PITA but hopefully won't cause any nursing troubles, and hopefully my milk really will come in like they say - though I am skeptical due to PCOS.

Having to supplement with formula was one of the things I was afraid of, and having to do it already on Day Four is worse than I thought. I feel so awful about it... but also feel awful about how my kid cried for two days because she was so hungry.

This stuff is hard.

Comments

[posthaste.livejournal.com]

oh mamas *hugs*

ok -- if it helps at all: when ally (my oldest) was born i was so tired and frustrated that we supplemented in the hospital right away...but when we came home from the hospital she was on nothing but breastmilk from then on and nursed until she was almost 2 :) the first six weeks or so were rough but i pumped and pumped until i was able to get her latched on. so it *can* happen.

you can totally do this. i know it's so hard, and you're so tired. you might want to see if you can find a LLL group in your area!

if i can offer up any advice please don't hesitate to ask! i know you have wonderful, supportive nursing mamas on your friends list too *hugs*

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I have all of the LLL contacts for my area, but I haven't really been able to get to/talk to any of them because we're running around like idiots right now. Which sucks, because now is the time that I need time! I mean, I am covered in stitches so getting out to do /anything/ (let alone three trips to the pediatrician in three days) is a major issue.

I tried pumping earlier today because I wanted to see how much would come out and I also wanted to see if what came out was milk or colostrum. It's definitely milk, but only the tiniest amount of it. And when I say tiny, I mean that I pumped one breast for like 15 minutes and got maybe 30 drops. And the other breast got ZERO drops.

It's so frustrating because currently she latches really well and wants to do this stuff, and so every time I uttered any kind of concern at the hospital they were like, "Oh, you are going to be fine, your milk will come and her latch is so good, blah blah blah," and I asked everyone, "What happens if my milk doesn't come in?" and they smiled and there-there'd me and said, "I'm sure it will come tomorrow." Tomorrow. Always tomorrow.

[girlonthewire.livejournal.com]

you do what you have to do. formula won't kill the baby. and you're taking precautions to make sure you'll be able to nurse when your milk does come in. so, i think you guys are doing a great job!

MORE PICS!!!! :)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I know formula isn't the end of the world, and I assumed that I would probably supplement some at SOME point, but nursing is incredibly important to me and is part of what I want for my baby.

I'm already noticing that she is less inclined to latch on now, because she wants someone to squirt formula in her mouth. This is the kid that until this afternoon would stay latched on for HOURS trying to get something.

Jen has pics on her Flickr page, but she has them locked to friends. If you go to that picture I posted, you can get her Flickr name and add her - she'll add you back. :)

[wendywoowho.livejournal.com]

Oh, honey. :HUGS: You are gonna figure this out. You are. You and your wife and your beautiful little girl are totally going to figure this out. August Rose is not going to starve, and she's not going to die from dehydration, and you clearly have a good team of resourceful professionals on hand to help you make sure that's going to happen.

Of course it's frustrating. Of course it's scary. It's all so strange and new and things that seem like they should be the easiest most natural things in the world aren't.

If I were nearer, I'd bring you over a batch of oatmeal raisin cookies, because they say oatmeal helps, and even if it doesn't, my sister says that the cookies, baked with love, are soothing and (since Bob bakes hers) make it a "team effort."

This stuff? IS HARD. You're not wrong in thinking that.

I just know that you are made of strong stuff, Jude. You are. You are a strong, beautiful, intelligent, giving, loving woman. You're married to another one. And now, you're gonna raise yet another one.

It's heroes work.

And if there's anyone I'd trust with that, it's you.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Thanks, W. I know that whatever happens, everyone will survive. I mean, even with a broken heart you can survive... but that doesn't make it suck less.

I have packets of oatmeal here but no ingredients for oatmeal cookies, nor any of the other things that are supposed to be good for milk production. And umm, there is no grocery shopping in my near future - not until I can walk without looking like a freak! ;)

[mtgirl.livejournal.com]

Oh, I just promise this will happen. I know this frustration. Can you and that baby just go to bed and lay there and watch movies and sleep and whatnot? It may sound impossible, but it helped my milk to come in just by going to bed. I can't remember which one of my books said to do that.

I wish I could bring dinner and drop it off for you all in the worst way. I'd bring salad and salmon and rice and crusty bread and ice cream and Perrier and all things yummy.

Coming from a supportive nursing mom: I promise it will happen, but there's not thing in the world wrong with giving that baby some formula in the meantime. You are an amazing mama, and what's more, your lucky little girl has two of those, so she's going to totally rock.

I'm sending hugs and good milk wishes.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

We don't have a television in the bedroom (thank goodness, I hate TVs in bedrooms!) so we could all go to bed but we would be bored, bored, bored. And now that we're doing this syringe contraption, feeding has become a MAJOR production - takes some of the "lazy day in bed" out of the whole thing.

Jen is making dinner right now, which is really nice. It's interesting to have a baby that goes to sleep after eating now instead of crying for the hour or so between attempts. Now maybe we can do some stuff around the house.

I know that formula isn't the devil, but I also know that I want better for our family.

[anitsirk.livejournal.com]

how about fenugreek or mother's milk tea?

august is welcome to my stash of breastmilk if that doesn't squick you out. i'm sure enzo would be happy to share.

breastfeeding is not as easy as some people make it seem. give it time, and it will work out. if you need to call me and ask questions, or if you want any help, please call/IM/email.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I have neither fenugreek or MMT here at the moment, and can likely get some when I can walk around well enough to leave the house for any kind of duration, but for now all I have is oatmeal.

Enzo's milk doesn't squick me out - certainly not as much as squirting high fructose corn syrup directly down my kid's throat. Thanks for all of your help.

[amyura.livejournal.com]

You might want to consider joining adopt_a_mom, which is a community that offers one-to-one nursing support with a mentor.

Continue with the supplemental nursing system (the official name for the catheter thingee) and see if they can hook you up with a pump that you can use between feedings to encourage your milk to come in. There are also herbs such as fenugreek, and foods like brewer's yeast and oatmeal, that can help with milk supply.

*hugs*

[marshmelococoa.livejournal.com]

I posted at the same time as you - with some similar thoughts. :)

[marshmelococoa.livejournal.com]

It IS hard. But it's an ok kind of hard. You learn to adjust and figure out what works.

Did they talk to you at all about possibly pumping, trying to get that milk to come in, and then of course you can use any colostrum and soon to be milk to feed instead of formula?

We all know that breastmilk is best but formula is ok too. In the short term it's not going to confuse her or make things harder. After all, it is important that she stay hydrated.

There are some herbals and herbal teas out there that help with milk supply and things - not sure if they'd help for helping the milk come in.

Hang in there, you're doing a great job!! I want to see more of her, post more pics when you're up for it! :)

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I tried pumping today, and when I told him that (I also brought it in so he could see what it looked like and how much), he said that right now pumping wasn't in my best interests because I am still trying to keep the kid on the boob as much as possible and if I add pumping into the mix, I will never sleep. Also, nothing is coming out yet and he is correct in his assumption that pumping a dry boob is going to make me cry.

I really hope she doesn't get confused or lazy with the formula. I've already noticed that she's not as eager to latch on now because she wants someone to squirt some formula in her mouth. That makes me want to cry.

I know that we will work it out no matter what. I am just not really prepared to deal with this right this second on top of the end-of-pregnancy hormones and whatnot... and the guilt of knowing your baby was miserable and starving - and a nurse felt the need to say that to you.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was really pissed about that nurse. I mean, sure, I know she probably thought she was being funny or flippant or whatever, but HELLO - totally inappropriate. Usually I don't go out of my way to "rat out" people like that, but I felt the need to tell the doctor twice what she said and that it really upset me. This particular doctor is the head of the practice and I hope he says something to her.

I hope my milk comes in. You know, at least enough to feed my kid something without her crying nonstop because she is just so hungry and frustrated. It breaks my heart to know that she is sleeping now because some bottle of crap made her feel better and I can't.

[kjames.livejournal.com]

you're right, it's totally hard. on top of sleep deprivation, suddenly being in charge of a living breathing human, now you have this to deal with. i'm sorry, i know it's so hard. simon wouldn't nurse when my milk finally came in (day 4 and i don't have PCOS) and that suuucked. i had to give him a bottle and i cried. i was so worried. eventually he nursed. you know what? it sucked big time. it also was okay. it's all weird like that.

this is one of the reasons i'm SO glad formula exists. without it, little august could be in trouble. i'm glad she's not! she'll be okay and so will you guys. it's totally fine. if your milk comes in, awesome. if it doesn't... it's still okay. you are not a failure AT ALL. she is so loved by you both and that is what matters the most.

hang in there. i will pray for you guys, about this and all the new parent stuff which i know can be so overwhelming.

sorry for long comment!

[artemis44.livejournal.com]

Jude, I know we haven't met yet, but I want you to know that I will be in the valley on Friday and Saturday, and I would LOVE to come over and bring you the bottle of Fenugreek I still have, along with anything else you might need from the store that I could pick up for you.

I so know how hard it is - we had to supplement right away, as my milk did not come in (turns out I have hypoplastic breasts, so really hardly any milk ducts to work with), but even still we did manage to nurse for 10 months, just with a lot of supplementing.

We did the supplemental nurser system for the first 6 weeks, then finally chucked it for bottles because hell yeah, it's a royal PITA - but worth it! We also did finger feeding, which was basically taping the tube to C's finger and then letting him suck off the finger... it helped develop his suck in the first week or two.

Pumping is a great way to bring in the milk - but a HORRIBLE way to measure output. I'm sure you know this already, but lots of women who even nurse with no problems get almost no milk when they pump - they just don't respond to the pump. So don' t let that get you down.

Check out www.kellymom.com for GREAT breastfeeding information, they have lots of ideas for how to get through EXACTLY what you're going through.

And please, please send me an email and let me know if I can bring you some milk-making goodies... and whatever else you need... Like I said, I'll be out there anyways visiting friends/family, and I'd love to pass on the favors that were given to me when I was in exactly your shoes.

Good luck, gets lots of rest (yeah, right), and drink lots of water! And remember, you're doing a GREAT job, and you have GREAT support... and a PERFECT little girl! :)

Re: sorry for long comment!

[artemis44.livejournal.com]

Ooops, my email is artemis44 at gmail

Oh, and I also have 200 tablets of domperidone, though I don't know that you'd want to jump to that right away... but I'd be glad to leave them as well in case you get to that point...

(and, I SO do not want to contradict what your pros are telling you, but everything I read sort of disagreed with the whole "don't pump yourself dry," and "don't bother with pumping at the beginning"... so... I don't know, maybe just be sure to doublecheck what tehy're saying with other sources? Cuz I was always told the more stimulation, the better...)

[kathrynt.livejournal.com]

Oh, honey. Supplementing is ass. Even if it's necessary, it's ass that it's necessary.

One thing to be aware of at this point is that August's stomach is literally the size of a shooter marble. Even if you've just been giving her drops, that's a substantial portion of what she needs. And there are more antibodies in a drop of breastmilk than there are in all the formula ever made, and she's getting them.

It's good that nursing her is important to you, because you ARE nursing her. Supplementing is, as I say, ass, but it doesn't change the fact that you're nursing her. Let me ditto what previous posters have said -- I have a friend who was exclusively nursing her seventy-fifth percentile son, and she couldn't pump more than a half an ounce in any 24 hour period.

Look into getting an SNS, which will duplicate nursing more accurately because she won't have to open her mouth for the syringe. and please, please believe me when I say that you are absolutely doing what's best for your precious girl, both in supplementing and in trying not to supplement.

[mollysummer72.livejournal.com]

Hey, my ped is an LC and I'm working with another LC now. I've got tons of info for you. You can email me at summer.page at gmail.

I've been pumping for 10 weeks, from day 4 of baby's birth, when we realised he was dehydrated and not getting milk. We finger fed for 5 weeks. I am so, so right there with you. Let me know if you have any questions or just want to talk.

[gala.livejournal.com]

I second the offer on mad breastmilk stimulating drugs. I got what you need. I'll pop what I think I can in the mail, but we're planning to be in the area at the end of July so I could bring the rest by.

As for pumping right now, don't. You will just stress yourself out, mostly because you will not be able to pump out as much as the baby is getting. Babies are WAY MORE efficient at getting milk out of you than a machine is. Plus, Stress = lower supply. So the reason you're told not to pump is that the baby stimulates you more/better.

I agonized over giving V formula - my milk took about a week to come in, and I had done zero research before-hand. There are tons of things I would go back and change, but to be honest, formula feeding isn't the end of the world. It took me a long time to get to the point where I was able to say that, but I did. By the end of my maternity leave, V was exclusively breastfed. That was quite the feat. But because of the whole 'pump can't extract as much as the baby' quandry, we had to supplement when I went back to work. The benefit of that was she was already used to a bottle (downside now she's weaned is that is she thinks milk only comes with a silicone nipple - no sippy cups for milk here, no sir.), and if we were in a non-bf friendly location I could still feed her. And when it comes down to starving baby or formula feeding, well, you know what you've got to do. What we did do was just give her an ounce or two at a time, after nursing. Never more than that - go check out kellymom.com for more info on how much newborns actually eat per feeding. I think someone else mentioned how small babies' bellies are at first. You don't want to give her too much and get her too used to a large quantity of formula. Lots of small feedings are just as good as fewer large feedings.

At any rate - you're doing great! It's hard work feeding a baby. Don't sweat the small stuff, and yes, you will be a human pacifier for the first few weeks. With plenty of patience and diligence (and lanolin), you'll make it.

Good luck, hon! :)

[artjax.livejournal.com]

Hey - you guys are doing great - F what any nurse says - you're doing your best, and the kid will be fine.

xo

Don't stress

[(Anonymous)]

First- *hugs*. You're a great mom and you're doing what's best for your daughter.

Liam was born 5.5lbs without a sucking reflex, and breastfeeding was really important to my partner. He had to eat every 2 hours and couldn't/wouldn't latch on.

We supplemented. And we fed him breastmilk in a bottle. We had lactation consultants telling us not to, that it was going to cause nipple confusion that he'd never breast feed, but we knew our little baby *needed* to eat. And we were doing our best.

Eileen rented a hospital grade pump. It wasn't that expensive and it was totally worth it. The fancy expensive top of the line pump her friends had all chippped in to get for her wasn't in the same league. It did nothing for her. With the hospital grade pump, she was able to bring her milk in, and eventually work up to his demand, even though he wasn't nursing *at all*. It wasn't expensive and was a total sanity saver for us. See if you can find a place around you to rent one. This was one of the places I could be really helpful as the non-bio mom.

Just after we came home,(literally hours) we had to go back to the hospital for a week with jaundice. For jaundiced babies, formula is better, so they wouldn't let us feed him breast milk. Eileen pumped and saved.

At 6 weeks, he finally latched on, and breastfed until he self-weaned at 12 months. No nipple confusion. No refusing the breast.

Eileen just said to give yourself big hugs too. This part is *sooooooo* hard, take all the help you can get.

Don't hesitate to email if there's anything we can do.
KaylingR
KRichar@germantownacademy.org

Re: Don't stress

[amyura.livejournal.com]

It took my daughter six weeks of drinking EP'd bottled breastmilk to learn to latch too (and could only do so with a shield until 7 months). Those six weeks were hell but looking back totally worth it. She's still nursing at 18 months and shows no signs of stopping.

[everythingofme.livejournal.com]

First, I want to tell you congrats on your little one! :0)

Second, I had a very similar experience with my youngest, Ryan. My milk hadn't come in, and he was making slurping sounds when he was 'feeding' and sleeping and peeing, so I didn't realize anything was amiss until the third day. I took him to the doctor, and also had to formula feed there in the office. I starved the little bugger for almost three whole days. BTW, my milk came in about a week later, but I was so freaked by the ordeal that I decided to keep formula/bottle feeding just so that I could see exactly what he ate! (so I was a little neurotic)
I now know that I had undiagnosed PCOS when pregnant with Ryan, among other uterus issues.

Try not to punish yourself over this. I did, and it just wasn't any help to the whole adjusting-to-new-baby-hood thing. It isn't your fault, and you can't control it.
Hang in there!

[kcmedc.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to hop on here and say congrats she is beautiful!!! As for you feeding problem have you tried pumping? That might speed things along. Don't worry too much they all lose weight at the begining. In three months you'll think man what a chunk she is :). She is a doll.

[thatpatti.livejournal.com]

oh man, that's so hard! come on, milk!!!

[meglett.livejournal.com]

first of all, many, many, many hugs to all of you. that breastfeeding is really difficult is one of the most coveted secrets in the world.

quinn cried for 5 weeks because of the supply issues, and we know how it is to feel so helpless. i agree with kayling and highly recommend renting a hospital grade pump. most likely you'd be able to do weekly rentals, so if you no longer need it after a while, you won't be out too much $$.

we also have about 8-900 pills of domperidome here in our house, and can send some to you tomorrow, just so you have them. if you don't need them, you can send them back or pass them along to someone else.

FXFXFX that tomorrow (or tonight) really is the day your milk comes in. DO call if you want to. sending another couple of hugs just for fun.

[hiddentask.livejournal.com]

First let me say you're daughter is just cute as can be. Let me also say congrats to you and your wife on the new addiction to your family.

I have/had PCOs and I bf both of my children. I was actually told to pump to help encourage my milk to come in. I had a jaundice baby so this made him sleep and thus caused my milk to not want to come in. I pumped after every 1 1/2 to 2 hrs to help stimulate production and that seemed to help. I know your being offered alot of advice and none of it will give you the answer to help right now but trust your mothers instink. It will not lead you in the wrong direction.

[(Anonymous)]

Hi, total lurker here. August Ruth is gorgeous!!! Congratulations, I'm so happy for you guys. I'm surprised they told you not to pump. I supplemented until my milk came in on Day SIX, and if I wasn't pumping (pumping close to NOTHING, just booby air) every three hours, I was putting him on my boob to get close to nothing out of it, and then feeding him the formula (I never did the syringe, it was never offered.) Or at least that's kinda/sorta how I remember it....the hospital left me with the message that my sleep came secondary. Don't get discouraged! But I would be pro-active and pump, it's worth it in the end. And if for some unlikely reason she never again takes to your breast, you can always feed her the expressed milk instead of the formula.

She's such a little-little! :love: :squeeze: =D

[hopemcg.livejournal.com]

I was gonna offer to send you some dom, but I see wifey already did. I don't want to be a pusher, but the stuff made all the difference in the world to us. Our LCs aren't allowed to suggest it, but when we told her I'd started taking it, she was all excited and relieved.

Someone already suggested kellymom as a resource. You can also check out Dr. Newman's articles. Here is a page with them: http://www.bflrc.com/newman/articles.htm Good information on breastfeeding in general, domperidone, sore nipples, etc.

The pumping thing is a quandry. You DO want to actually have some milk build up in there, but you also need to stimulate as much as possible so that your milk-makers think kidlet is extra hungry. I would maybe suggest pumping for 5 minutes immediately after nursing. Don't expect to get milk out, just think of it as stimulation. If you don't expect milk, it relieves some of the stress/pressure. Don't worry about washing your works every time. Just put new bottles on your horns, throw them in the fridge and they will be ready to go the next time. You could also replace a feeding with a pumping and let Jen wear the SNS.

In retrospect with Quinn, I attributed so much of my self worth to how much milk I was producing. Sans hormones, I know that's ridiculous, but it was so hard. It's hard not to make yourself crazy with it all. We can call you if you want. I have been making myself not call because I don't want to disturb any tiny bits of sleep that anyone might be getting.

[yerbrainondrugs.livejournal.com]

So I know I'm late to the party, what with being forcibly off the internet for about two weeks, but I wanted to say that it's so awesome to hear there's a little Judy running around now. Really brightened up our day. We're so happy for you! It sounds like you're being a great and considerate mom so don't feel bad. And make sure to kiss the baby for us soon!
Love!

[laursabeth.livejournal.com]

I have no way of knowing what this feels like, so instead I just wanted to say that I heard you and hope the you find peace of mind with the situation and that I hope that your milk comes in soon. At least August is well loved and being cared for as you work to figure out what comes next. Lucky little girl.

[oppendonnell.livejournal.com]

No advice, no drugs to mail....just hugs. And I know it all seems awful now (and I may be singing a different tune in a few months) but you ARE feeding your baby, and she is beautiful. And that is what matters.

Love to the 3 of you!

This turned into a nove, I feel your pain.

[estrange.livejournal.com]

I don't know if you read about my breast feeding nightmares but I didn't make enough milk and although my milk came in there was hardly anything - I mean like less than an ounce on each breast. And after that all I got were clogged milk ducts, mastitis, and a starving baby - with both Dev & Maia.

There is NOTHING wrong with formula feeding and don't let anyone tell you there is or make you feel bad about it. Costco has the Kirkland brand formula that I use & it's much cheaper and has the same ingredients as the other ones.

I know what you mean about the catheter & syringe thing. WIth both Devin & Maia they gave me that SNS - you attach it to your breast and put formula in it and then the baby gets formula but it also stimulates nursing too so it's suppose to help. It is a HUGE HUGE pain, I hate that thing so damn much. I've used the catheter & syringe method too. I think I've used about everything. You can also use your finger in their mouth and squirt formula in with the syringe, I preferred that method above all.

The system they had for me from the lactation consultant was.... feed baby with SNS for 20 minutes & alternate breasts then pump both breasts simultaneously with the hospital grade pump for 20 minutes and put that in the SNS for next time, repeat. I got so sore from the pumping & Maia not latching on correctly I had bleeding nipples & it hurt & sucked so so bad.

I ended up just going straight to pumping & bottle feeding supplementing with formula. I did the pumping for 4 months with D but I made hardly any milk at all so really it wasn't worth it. With Maia I pumped maybe 2 months and went to straight formula.

I'm sorry things suck so much. Just know you are not alone and there is nothing wrong with formula, at all! Let me know if you need anything.