It might be time.

[judecorp]

Jen and I have been talking a bit over the last week or so about the reasons we moved here - both here to Massachusetts and here to the western part of the state later on. There were things we were searching for with both moves, one a continuance of the other.

Moving back to MA was a political move, a move in anticipation of settling down and starting a family. It was a move for marriage, a move to a "village," and a move to be nearer to some family than to be in the middle of Ohio away from positively everyone either of us was related to. Our move to western MA was about family values, "finding our tribe," looking for the place to establish roots and bring up children. It was about hippie living, earthy values, and loads of queer families.

The reality is that we've not found much of what we were looking for. Sure, we're married - sort of. We have a marriage license that is not recognized by something like 45 states. We have assumed parentage in this state that has to be backed up by adoption for all the others. We have the most confusing tax returns ever, where we do a yearly dance to see who claims the home we both own or the child we both raise. And here, here we're surrounded by queer families, of whom we know very few and can't seem to break into. Here we're in the company of hippies but juuust a bit too far away.

And here we still live in a country that devalues our family, denies its legitimacy, and actively fights against its equality. We live in a country that believes that healthcare is a privilege that must be earned. We live in a country that goes against so many of our values... and our family is suffering for it.

We talked over this past week about the absence of queer couples in our lives and how that has affected us - how Jen feels less safe to be physically demonstrative in a see of straightness and how I don't have likeminded people to bounce relationship ups and downs off of. We talked about how the selfishness of the dominant culture in the US hurts my spirit and is weighing me down, how I struggle working with clients against a stream of self-absorption and lack of concern for one's neighbor. We talked about our weekends with tea_soaked and her family, those few instances where we felt like things were good and right and healthy for us.

We revisited, for the first time in a year or more since my grandparents' health started to decline, the idea of heading to Canada and letting our family be nourished by an overarching culture that acknowledges and values our family as all families. We revisited, and it might be time.

Comments

[amyura.livejournal.com]

I had a long comment written but realized I was hijacking your post. I'd say I'll be sorry to see you go, but if things continue I can't say we won't be following in your footsteps if Canada will take us.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Come with! I really like you!!

[sassywoman.livejournal.com]

I can see where you're coming from and I wish that our country wasn't full of so many ignorant and prejudiced assholes. Canada seems lovely.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

But at least I have you!

[sassywoman.livejournal.com]

:) Wish that was enough!

[dch4.livejournal.com]

Given your situation and the current legal crap surrounding it, I can't honestly say as I blame you. It remains utter crap that yours and Jen's marriage is treated any differently than mine in this country. At the end of the day, you have to do what's best for you and your family.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

Thank you for refraining from snarky comments. That means you DO love me!

But yes, the marriage situation is way out of control. And the fact that the idiots I share a state with have elected a man who is openly opposed to same-sex marriage in the first state to grant same-sex marriages is really effing stupidly ironic.

[ladyleo.livejournal.com]

He is a good guy ;-)

There's a lot I don;t like with this country, and I foresee a lot of people having to make the same decision to make their quality of life better.

*hugs*

[dch4.livejournal.com]

There's no reasons for snarky comments on this. While there are many things in the political spectrum where we don't agree, this is one of them. Even if we didn't, this is something you're looking at doing as best for your family, which doesn't deserve any snarky commentary from me. :)

[the-schmoopy.livejournal.com]

Schmoopy says: Vancouver is pretty and close to my mommies in Seattle.

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

I do love Vancouver! It is gorgeous!!!!

Far away from everyone in my family but you, Schmoop. But still gorgeous!

[cappucinogrrl.livejournal.com]

Just like Melanie, Lindsay, and Gus.

Logistically, will it be hard for you both to find work there?

[rexlezard.livejournal.com]

Considering the US is in the middle of the biggest economic crisis since the '30s? No. They're both trained professionals.

Actually, I think in Canada, assuming you chose somewhere with a decent cost of living (hint: not Vancouver, not Toronto) you could probably find a way for only one of you to work, considering there's no cost for healthcare (ok, virtually none, there are some costs for prescriptions and such, but very little, and with supplementary insurance, no worries.)

Also, don't forget your credit report doesn't travel, nor do your debts. You could file bankruptcy in the US and walk away.

I don't mean to make Canada sound like the land of milk and honey, it's not. 15% sales tax is really shocking for a while. No Netflix instant viewing. More expensive cell phones and crappier plans. No Pandora.

But, um, I never knew how hard America was until I tried to live here. I mean, I know Canadians make a hobby out of believing we'res superior to Americans, and that Canada is the country above the US for a reason, but I thought I'd be Ok.

I've faced more discrimination, economic hardship, concerns about safety and health and well-being in the US than I imagined possible, considering I live in the little oasis of the valley.

I say GO FOR IT!!! Definitely go visit some places first. I could recommend my old home town. It's not as crunchy as Northampton, but my first thought, the first time I came to NoHo 10 years ago was, "wow, this is so much like Guelph, but smaller and cuter."

[cappucinogrrl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know they're both trained professionals, but those are degrees from the US. But I don't know if Canada has different licensing requirements for social work. And while the job situation in the US stinks right now, that doesn't mean it's necessarily better in Canada.

[amyura.livejournal.com]

IME the Canadian university system is sufficiently similar to the US system to make credentialing not a big deal at all. When I went to McGill, my application was ridiculously simple compared to the apps for American schools. Canadian grad schools accept graduates of American schools. There are doctors with MDs from American schools, and American teachers, who work in Canadian hospitals and schools.

[rexlezard.livejournal.com]

The job situation in Canada is much, much, much, better. The Canadian economy is doing really well considering how dependent on the US it is. My non-economist sociologist opinion is that Canada's extensive public sector smooths out these economic drops and booms.

A US degree in Canada is 100% accepted, often even preferred as there is a cultural value that if one is a success in Canada, that's not really the same thing as being an international success. Hence why I'm doing my nickle bit, er, PhD in the US with the intent of going home to Canada.

The exception is for non-Canadians with foreign PhDs seeking university or government positions, and physicians. Huge credentially problems for mediacl docs, but they'll do great.

[lanewaychatter.livejournal.com]

I can't even imagine what it must be like to contemplate this. But Canada yay! I'm in Toronto. If you need my help, ask for it! Come visit me!

[maphia.livejournal.com]

I don't blame you. My partner and I just got married last year, and i'm realizing the ridiculousness of our little our marriage means, especially in the eyes of the federal government. I am from MA, and after a 4 year stint in NYC moved back here hoping for a better life. I have realized it is no better though. And after yesterday's election...

[oppendonnell.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's much chance of us emigrating to a *colder* climate. But I have long had fantasies about Canada. I am in love with Montreal ("lived" there for a semester of college). The country definitely has a different feel from the U.S. (and that was even before they, consistently and intelligently, legalized all marriage). I have family in Montreal and suburbs, Toronto suburbs, and Vancouver, and I am really glad I do.

We'll visit!!!

[artjax.livejournal.com]

So, bad time to tell you that we're moving to the valley?

[oppendonnell.livejournal.com]

Are you serious?? Because we are in the Valley all the goddamn time.

[artjax.livejournal.com]

totally serious. prolly next winter/early spring

[colleenod.livejournal.com]

Can you do it? How many points do you have? Leah has more points for moving to Canada than I do.

Also, remember, I know the unemployment rate in the US isn't currently high, but both you and Jen have jobs here, although I know you aren't happy with yours and that's valid. My understanding is that the unemployment rate is higher in Canada. I knew a fair number of teachers who moved to the U.S. to teach here cuz they couldn't find jobs in Canada, back when I was teaching.

I don't know why I say any of this. You and Jen are both smart and extremely responsible. You would weigh all these before doing anything. But, I am just letting you know why I don't feel like Canada is an option for us. (Also, I hate the cold.)

[cfred.livejournal.com]

Interesting, because I thought teachers were on the list of professions that get you bonus points/bumped up the list for consideration. (They were the last time I looked a few years back; I lose my credit for teaching experience next year, since they only look(ed) at what you've done that last ten years.)

There is part of me that has always seen the allure of Canada and wanted to move there. Yes, even through having the expat coworker who said that, from the $80,000 salary point to the $200,000 salary point, your take-home pay really doesn't go up that much because of hikes in taxes.

Would I still like to go there? Yes. However, there's also a voice in my head that says I should stay to the back of the line, to make more room for y'all and anybody else emigrating from Massachusetts or the outright oppressive states.

[kieron.livejournal.com]

I have 72 points. Once my Master's is done I will have 77 points. I think. Not sure what Jude has. But I am betting its as much or more since she knows some French and has as much/more education than I do....current cut-off for skilled emigrant in points is 67.

[vorpalbla.livejournal.com]

So if either one of you hits the cut-off, the whole family gets in?

[kieron.livejournal.com]

I think so. One of us can do the skilled worker entrance then the family can come as a unit. But I would have to check it out further.

[tea-soaked.livejournal.com]

Haha yeah there is the cold... and the snow (we live in the so called snow belt).

In general, the job situation varies greatly from place to place - greatly. I got a job in teaching in a city where at the time when there were not a lot of jobs in teaching... I think I was lucky. In Toronto apparently there are tonnes of jobs in teaching - but we didn't want to move to TO (cost of living is too high).

I also had to have my credentials assessed, which took 9 months (and I think a lot of professions have to do this), so I couldn't teach right away and had to take a crappy office job, filling in for someone on maternity leave... um, which is 52 weeks paid my the government (you have to love that).

[childlight.livejournal.com]

I have a LJ friend who moved to Canada and half way through your post I started thinking she lives in the kind of place you are describing. Do you have friends in Canada? She had a really tough time getting a work permit and everything. If she doesn't mind I can put the two of you in touch and maybe she can give you some advice.

[aminahfiddler.livejournal.com]

This sucks on so many levels. The biggest for me is that you must move to protect your family. I have many friends that have moved here from Canada, and a few that moved to Canada. Reasons to move from one to the other were valid for all parties.

I hate that your marriage is looked down where mine is not. It's just not fair. You and Jen are wonderful and productive people. I pray wherever you land you find peace and live a life that you are happy and safe.

[estrange.livejournal.com]

Yeah Canada seems like an awesome place.

[jadefu.livejournal.com]

I actually told a coworker this morning that there was no way I could vote for Brown because he voted against gay marriage and tried to repeal it, and I couldn't support that because not only was it wrong, but it would hurt too many of my friends. I was specifically thinking of the two of you in that list.

If you look at how the counties voted, Western MA STILL voted Democrat. It doesn't fix things, but it may help you as you try to put things in perspective. It's not everyone.

I'm sad that you're sad. It's bullshit that this country can't just get its act together and figure out that two people getting married is ok and not the end of the world just because they're the same gender. It makes me feel guilty of my own marriage. It's just not fair.

[tea-soaked.livejournal.com]

Yes yes come to Canada - we are enjoying it here.

[hetterrific.livejournal.com]

I am very sad that our country is like this. It shouldn't be this way.

From Lyssa

[(Anonymous)]

yowza! that's a pretty big statement! I mean, I know that there's a lot behind it, but of course, if you want to talk about it, or are looking for resources or whatever, you let me know. I can talk over and over about Nova Scotia, I can talk a bit about emigrating there, and such...

I can understand your concerns. I am glad that I am in JP, and we have a mix of various friends and community, but I do wonder what and how things would develop if we had kids....

Am I being presumptuous?

[sans-visage.livejournal.com]

Yes, I am creepily reading through some of your old posts.

I can understand the desire to share in life with like minded individuals. Since it seems you haven't moved here, and aren't quite planning to yet, I thought I could point out a place to find some like minded people? You may already know of it but when I found it I was so happy that it led me to meet some people who shared my point of view. http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/list/235 That is the Queer parenting forum, there is also a forum for finding people in your area.

Hope that if you haven't already, you do end up finding a comfortable community somewhere. <3

Re: Am I being presumptuous?

[judecorp.livejournal.com]

It's okay, I don't mind creepystalking. :) I mean, it's all out there on the internet. Have fun going back to 2000! :)

I occasionally lurk on MDC but to be honest I'm not really "feeling" them. Is that weird? I have some friends who are also on MDC but I don't know them from MDC, and I get along with them perfectly fine and dandy, but I never really meshed with the MDC crowd. I don't know why, because I'm on other parenting forums with no problems.

I have used their "finding my tribe" splits, though - to find a pediatrician when I first moved here, to look for donor milk, some other things. It is definitely helpful. It's tough because southern New England is all split off together (because we're small states) so you end up having to go through looking for what is close.

Keep on stalking in the free world! :)